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What's with all the live auditions?

#81
guy n. cognito said:
Clubs use "open mic nights" as just another way to get musicians to provide entertainment for free, while buying drinks and food at the same time. The bolder ones will even charge door to the musicians providing the entertainment. They normally have them on Monday or Tuesday nights. It's just another revenue source that takes advantage of musicians that just don't know any better.
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That's assuming that all the musicians are worth being paid for their performance. Not everyone who shows up to open mic are capable musicians, hence why they have a host band (which usually is paid). With an open mic, the venue has additional risks of having a performer come up who will clear the place out.
 
#83
So my band, Nordic Pete & The Icelandic Groove Trippers, is in this situation in that we have to play an open mic for an audition. We just contacted a bar here in Denver about playing a gig for them since we are playing with a band tonight who has a gig book at this bar later this month. They checked out our website and stated that they like our sound and we have to go a week from tomorrow and audition during their open mic. We are excited!!!

I do feel it suck a bit that even tho we got positive feedback about our facebook site that we still have to audition, for free. But, as I'm learning, this is a bit of the norm. And it's our job to get our music out there for people to hear! We like playing open mic because the last couple mic we have played, we have gotten paid gigs from. We only advertise to fans about our bigger, mostly paid gigs so we make the bar/club owners happy but open mics have been a positive experience for us.
 
#85
Beersurgeon said:
So my band, Nordic Pete & The Icelandic Groove Trippers, is in this situation in that we have to play an open mic for an audition. We just contacted a bar here in Denver about playing a gig for them since we are playing with a band tonight who has a gig book at this bar later this month. They checked out our website and stated that they like our sound and we have to go a week from tomorrow and audition during their open mic. We are excited!!!

I do feel it suck a bit that even tho we got positive feedback about our facebook site that we still have to audition, for free. But, as I'm learning, this is a bit of the norm. And it's our job to get our music out there for people to hear! We like playing open mic because the last couple mic we have played, we have gotten paid gigs from. We only advertise to fans about our bigger, mostly paid gigs so we make the bar/club owners happy but open mics have been a positive experience for us.
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More power to you - but it still sounds like a very convenient way for the bar to have free entertainment on otherwise low-draw nights. It's also a great way to put more butts on stools because excited, motivated bands with a half way decent ground game will motivate their fans to come and support them so they look good.

Win, win - for the bar, that is.

Seems like the only loser on that night is the band who plays for free. The crowd gets a show - the bar gets a crowd - the staff gets paid and tipped - Not saying that's what's going on here - but it's hard not to see that the end results are the same either way.
 
#86
So how about showcase gigs for an agency?

Say a music buyer like an event planner wants to to check out some bands on an agency's roster to see if they are worth the large sum of money they are going to charge. The band will be making thousands off this client, and the client wants to be sure the band is actually like the video demo he/she watched. Would you do it?
 
#87
jive1 said:
So how about showcase gigs for an agency?

Say a music buyer like an event planner wants to to check out some bands on an agency's roster to see if they are worth the large sum of money they are going to charge. The band will be making thousands off this client, and the client wants to be sure the band is actually like the video demo he/she watched. Would you do it?
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Me? Probably.

If the agency has a good reputation and if the town your in is one where you don't get top shelf gigs unless you are on their roster...

I've seen 'agencies' that also use 'open mics' and 'audition nights' as their sole means to put entertainment on a stage. That they really don't have a 'roster' - more like a list of suckers who will keep doing gigs like that for little or no reward - on the promise of bigger, better things tomorrow.

They tend to be the bastard siblings of those same slimy bars - and interestingly seem to be conspicuously familiar with each other.
 
#88
I have been watching this thread and can add a perspective from the other side of the bar since i have been working a bit as a bartender.
The best night of the week for revenues and tips is "open mic nite" all those drinking musicians are a godsend. The cynical club owner is trying to figure a way to do it more often.
 
#89
jive1 said:
That's assuming that all the musicians are worth being paid for their performance. Not everyone who shows up to open mic are capable musicians, hence why they have a host band (which usually is paid). With an open mic, the venue has additional risks of having a performer come up who will clear the place out.
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No kidding. It seems that some of the open mics that I've watched were just a way for incompetent and/or seriously inexperienced "musicians" to have an opportunity to suck in public.

If I had to, I'd pay a "cover charge" just to get out the door.
 
#90
Open mics done right can be really entertaining. The best ones I've seen have been hosted by some known local player who can also bring in a lot of his own skilled friends to make sure there is plenty of good stuff in between the unknown quantities.

I am not really saying there is never a reason to play for free - just be wary if you find yourself in a 'circuit' where playing for free is the norm, not the exception.

And look seriously hard with a raised eyebrow at most 'pay to play' "opportunities".
 
#91
I have a question. How many people have ever been paid to fill out a job application? How many people been paid for a job interview? Doesn't getting paid equal a job? I consider facebook/reverb/etc a resume for our band to have an interview. And then we kick butt at the interview and get a job.

Of course you can get screwed over by a venue/bar. But if you don't leave your computer and talkbass, how will you know? If you are too dumb and keep falling into this pattern of being screwed over by bars, it called survival of the fittest. You deserve it!!!

The NFL draft is coming up. We have seen all of these kids play on TV at their colleges. We have seen these kids on TV playing for their high schools. So why does every college kid have to go thru the NFL combine to be drafted? I can promise you, these kids are not being paid at the combine, they get the money when they are draft AFTER proving themselves, over and over and over and over.

Internet makes it easier to get your image out there but it sounds like it making us lazier. If you want to get pay to play, go out and earn it!
 
#92
I would have to argue the point about being paid to apply for a job.

A band is much more like being a contractor and I assure you, contractors put in bids, but do not to auditions - as a general rule.

Look - I know that there are times when playing for free is valid - and I've done it myself.

But the NFL and applying for a job are so far different than being in a band I just don't see how your analogy holds up.

Now if that bar is going to hire you guys to play every night and make your band a regular employee, I'd think your analogy has merit.
 
#93
tZer said:
I've seen 'agencies' that also use 'open mics' and 'audition nights' as their sole means to put entertainment on a stage. That they really don't have a 'roster' - more like a list of suckers who will keep doing gigs like that for little or no reward - on the promise of bigger, better things tomorrow.

They tend to be the bastard siblings of those same slimy bars - and interestingly seem to be conspicuously familiar with each other.
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Luckily I haven't run into that in DC. The showcases tend to be for agency bands doing weddings and corporates where there's some actual cash involved, not bar gigs.
 
#94
jive1 said:
So how about showcase gigs for an agency?

Say a music buyer like an event planner wants to to check out some bands on an agency's roster to see if they are worth the large sum of money they are going to charge. The band will be making thousands off this client, and the client wants to be sure the band is actually like the video demo he/she watched. Would you do it?
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I would. In fact, I have (see a response from me earlier in this thread) with what seemed to me to be good results.

I think the key is to be a bit discriminating about playing showcases, as well as being honest with yourself. If you know your band is as good as any around and you play showcases without ever getting gigs out of it, then maybe you ARE getting worked.
 
#95
jive1 said:
Luckily I haven't run into that in DC. The showcases tend to be for agency bands doing weddings and corporates where there's some actual cash involved, not bar gigs.
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I think it makes perfect sense to play the showcase if that's the only way the agency takes on it's bands - which makes perfect sense. But it definitely sounds like an agency like that isn't concerned with filling a bar on off nights.

I think clubs/bars - especially ones worth playing - should be able to hear a demo, see a website (or promo pack - showing my age here) and be able to pay the band to do a Wednesday or Thursday night at a reduced, getting to know you price. The night goes well, you get on their rotation for a Friday/Saturday or both arrangement at a regular, respectable rate.

I have never been in a band (in the last 20 years) that had to play for free just to 'get a gig' - so I really don't think is logical to argue that bands should have to do so unless they are more than willing. I have definitely done off-night gigs at less than usual pay to get in the door, however. I just don't think anyone should have to 'suck it' just on the promise of 'maybe'...
 
#96
My drummer is a contractor.

He has to go meet the client for free. He had to look at the area that he will be working on, for free. I has to bring a demonstration of his previous jobs, for free. Sometimes, he has to make a drawing or blueprints for free. He has to sell his work and prove he is the best for the job. And then, he MIGHT get the job.

So how is this different from a band?

Not much. We have to go talk to the bar owner, for free. We have to show them what we have done in the past, for free. We have to prove ourselves, sometimes for free, that we are the best one for the job. Just like a contractor, we are putting in a bid to play. There are step that have to be done to get work. Sometimes easier then others.

How do you get your gigs? Mr Tzer
 
#97
I've seen these things go both ways, when I was younger I played plenty of "Jam Sessions" where they'd book a bunch of bands to play on a Sunday and nobody got paid or booked for a return show. I've also done several "Showcase Nights" where the venue was legit and would at least throw you food and drinks for a set and work out paid bookings if they liked you.

We've also gone to a few open mics at clubs we've wanted to play, usually after sending promo and not receiving any sort of response. Before doing so I would always scope out the situation and do my best to assure that the person doing the booking would be available to see us and talk to us after the set, and we've gotten several regular gigs from that method.

One time an acoustic duo I played in booked a show at a local organic eatery for dinner and a promise from the owner that he would grab his friend who owned the larger music venue next door and make him check us out for part of a set. That led to a regular big money gig at the larger venue and was absolutely worth it.

The key is to do some research and ask the pertinent questions before offering your band up for a free show. You can never be sure that things are going to work out in your favor, but you can lessen the possibility of getting screwed if you do a little legwork first.
 
#99
Beersurgeon said:
My drummer is a contractor.

He has to go meet the client for free. He had to look at the area that he will be working on, for free. I has to bring a demonstration of his previous jobs, for free. Sometimes, he has to make a drawing or blueprints for free. He has to sell his work and prove he is the best for the job. And then, he MIGHT get the job.

So how is this different from a band?

Not much. We have to go talk to the bar owner, for free. We have to show them what we have done in the past, for free. We have to prove ourselves, sometimes for free, that we are the best one for the job. Just like a contractor, we are putting in a bid to play. There are step that have to be done to get work. Sometimes easier then others.

How do you get your gigs? Mr Tzer
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I am sorry - I really didn't mean to offend you.

I have worked as a contractor and have never had to do anything out of the ordinary to get a gig- I have indeed turned people down who want me to give away my work. I think a band putting together a proper promo kit - website - videos - downloads and so on is due diligence on the band's part.

I have also said that I agree there are times when playing for free is worth while. I even said more power to you. If you are going to get your bluster up with me, why not include the entire substance of what I am saying?

How do I get my gigs? To tell you the truth, I really don't know. They just fall out of the sky. What I do know is that I've played tons - literally hundreds if not thousands - and have rarely needed to play for free. Not never... but rarely. A few of those freebies were real mistakes - the others were usually 'charity' of a sort - and maybe there was one that was a 'free audition' but honestly, I cannot remember ever doing that.

I've been in bands who did the boots on the ground labor and invested in what got us gigs - a good demo - pictures - videos - networking - We've put on our own 'invitation only' cd release parties for strategically selected people who own venues - put them all in one room, fed 'em good food and beer - gave 'em a nice, intimate performance - then ended up on all of their calendars -

I've been in bands who worked with local booking agents - never played an audition night - and only occasionally had to do the reduced fee 'getting to know you' gig...

I've been in bands where we simply found a venue that suits our style, struck up a conversation with the owner and gotten booked just from that.

And - as soon than I post all of this I will probably get a call from someone saying he's got an opportunity - but there's no pay... and I'll probably go do it. But it depends on who is calling, what the opportunity really is and if I feel like putting the effort required into it - because free or not, I still have to drive, lug gear, maybe even learn new music - nothing that I should have to do for free.

Honestly, man - I am not as much of a stick in the mud about this as it seems. I know sometimes it's worth it to play for free - I just don't have a lot of experience that bears that out. I am probably missing something.
 

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