No offense, but brother of a Spector owner or not, this guy is full of it. If it were true, headphones wouldn't work, and neither would bass amps in rooms smaller than 40ft long. Bass waves do not need to be fully formed for you to hear them.
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what's wrong with micing?
- Thread starter Ajak
- Start date
I agree. Our bass player at the time a had an Eden world tour 800 that he was just in love with and he wouldn't let us use it. He did have a pretty sweet Aguilar bass pre-amp that he claimed you have to get on a waiting list to even purchase, but almost everything he said sounded like grade A bull flop. I recorded several times since at a number of different studios with engineers with no formal training with much better results. I just thought you guys might find his quirks interesting.
Like I said, we weren't impressed with the results. In fact we never went back to him again.
Like I said, we weren't impressed with the results. In fact we never went back to him again.
The six words no professional musician ever wants to hear an engineer or soundman say:
"I just graduated from Full Sail."
The second I ever see a dude pull out a protractor to mic a cab, he's fired.
"I just graduated from Full Sail."
The second I ever see a dude pull out a protractor to mic a cab, he's fired.
I agree. The problem comes from people who do not know how or why a stage rig can wreck a mix. If the onstage person and the sound person have good knowledge it is rarely a problem. It's when clueless meets clueless that you get the disasters, the arguments and the grand standing.
In a perfect world a mic and a di would be used with a competent sound person mixing the two for best results.
Mic'ing vs DI depends on stage or studio.
If youre using a 210/410 cab with tweeter or a 210 with a 115 if you close mic one cone you're not going to capture how it sounds to you onstage. You would want to mic the cab further away like where your ears are to capture the cab(s), and tweeter as a whole to really capture what you are hearing.
On stage thats not good................everything on stage bleeding into the bass mic(s). In a studio where you are isolated use 3 mics if you want. Not practical for live.
I've read many posts where guitarists say my amp tone sounds sweet but it does not sound good when I record it.
Thats cause you need to capture it from where your ears are as well as close mic'ing to get how it sounds in the room. Again not a good idea live.
If youre using a 210/410 cab with tweeter or a 210 with a 115 if you close mic one cone you're not going to capture how it sounds to you onstage. You would want to mic the cab further away like where your ears are to capture the cab(s), and tweeter as a whole to really capture what you are hearing.
On stage thats not good................everything on stage bleeding into the bass mic(s). In a studio where you are isolated use 3 mics if you want. Not practical for live.
I've read many posts where guitarists say my amp tone sounds sweet but it does not sound good when I record it.
Thats cause you need to capture it from where your ears are as well as close mic'ing to get how it sounds in the room. Again not a good idea live.
Hey, watch it! My oldest son's a Full Sail grad.
(I HAVE had to teach him a few things after he went there, though.)
Close micing will never record 'the room' so it won't capture the sound you hear.
Close micing a cab is probably more like a DI sound than the full ambient sound of a great room. I read McCartney used to record some bass parts after everyone had left, setting the mic towards one end of the room, and he at the other.
All I know is dry sounds are not the only great bass tones. I'm no expert though, can't wait to learn it all first hand!
Total BS. The wave may be that long, but you can measure the changes in sound pressure over time (aka "record the sound") at any point in space.
The real trick is choosing the right microphone and finding a good location, as you can have coloration from different parts of the cone, phase notches etc. Just like with a guitar amp (or anything you mic, really).
+1. I've heard read similar things from experienced recording engineers... like this epic thread (It's got cool parts on compression and EQ too
)http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283&highlight=noise
Exactly my point, Bill! It's like graduating med school...you're still not a doctor until you've done a residency and done some real-life work under the supervision of people who know how it's done in the field. Yet for some reason, many Full Sail grads think they know everything they need to know the second they graduate, and so many of them aren't the least bit humble about it. Your kid needed a little straightening out, and so do most of them. I just hope he was more humble about it than some of the doozies I've worked with...sheesh! You'd think they were George Martin to hear them talk!
as a bass player that is all for tone and tonal control i much prefer to have my signal to go through a DI box. however the sans amp bass driver i have, actually has a balanced XLR out on it to send to a PA and a 1/4 inch to the amp.
as an artist (and im sure most would agree) i think it is imperative that the bass sounds i create and record in the studio is exactly what is heard through the PA, or at least assure that it is what is being fed to the PA.
what i have found over many years is that regardless of which venue i play in, im constantly changing my tone on my amp to get the sound that i have looked to create. so in saying that that would mean that no gig i do my sound is technically the same (right?). so then is saying that, if i were to mic the amp what im hearing and what the PA replicates by sticking a mic in front, is 2 completely different sounds. even when using the ludicrously expensive mics.
so then wouldn't saying that you have no tonal control be incorrect? and even in saying that, you really wouldn't have much tonal control anyway because the sound technician always has final control of what is heard...
something to think about............
also wouldn't you want to have the natural sound of your bass going to the PA system anyway? or have the sound tech take the DI output from your amp (in which almost every amp has now days)
as an artist (and im sure most would agree) i think it is imperative that the bass sounds i create and record in the studio is exactly what is heard through the PA, or at least assure that it is what is being fed to the PA.
what i have found over many years is that regardless of which venue i play in, im constantly changing my tone on my amp to get the sound that i have looked to create. so in saying that that would mean that no gig i do my sound is technically the same (right?). so then is saying that, if i were to mic the amp what im hearing and what the PA replicates by sticking a mic in front, is 2 completely different sounds. even when using the ludicrously expensive mics.
so then wouldn't saying that you have no tonal control be incorrect? and even in saying that, you really wouldn't have much tonal control anyway because the sound technician always has final control of what is heard...
something to think about............
also wouldn't you want to have the natural sound of your bass going to the PA system anyway? or have the sound tech take the DI output from your amp (in which almost every amp has now days)
Love the sound of my MM basses, but even better when the tubes start to overdrive a bit. The DI on my strmlnr works great but with my SVT-VR the power tube break-up is what I like. And that sound I get by putting a Beta-52 on my 810. Just what I dig not for everyone.
When I was micing, I got in the habit of telling soundmen, "If you match what's coming out of my amp and just tweak it a little for the house as needed, it should sound perfect for our band." And it worked! Nowadays I use a REDDI DI because I like it even better than the cab mic, but it's the only DI I ever used that I can say that about.
That's true, but believe it or not, some soundmen out there actually want the band to be happy with the house mix, and will take suggestions for mixing from the band gladly.
A perfectly valid choice for those who enjoy it. But there's two flaws to your thinking...
1. Not everyone wants the "natural" sound of their bass in the PA. Some want lots of distortion and other effects, and that's a perfectly valid choice for them, too.
2. Who says you can't get a "natural" sound out of micing your amp? Sounded perfectly natural to me when I was doing it.
3. The natural sound out of my bass is a slight hint of a note's pitch and a lot of fret rattle. To call the amplified sound "natural" makes no sense to me since there's a buttload of electronics between when the note starts and when it leaves the amp or PA, not to mention the many other variations you can have when describing what sounds "natural."
i will answer in 3 parts...much easier....
1
i have found that micing in loud environments personally not as suitable for bass, "generally" due to that harsher frequencies clash with the mic. and that using a DI to get a much cleaner signal to the PA. which is my main cause of concern...however in a studio i would totally both mic to get a nice warmth and take a direct signal for some punch.
2
as a sound engineer (yes is am one of TTHHHEEEMMM) by career aslo, i understand that its about producing the sound that the band wishes to hear. and i will often (if i know which bands im mixing) will do my research and get their albums listen to them non stop to understand their sound. understanding artists is imperative if one is to replicate them live, if they have certain suggestions and specifics, im totally open. but if i feel that something would sound better done differently, i have no problem in suggesting otherwise too. i believe that it should be a 2 way street.
3
i would agree entirely with that. and 2 solutions.
1. take the DI output of the amplifier. any sounds effects etc would be sent to the PA system.
2. take the 1/4" out from the last effects pedal before the amp, go into the DI. then the PA will get the balanced signal, then the through output on the DI will go to the amp.
if a band is completely adamant about using a mic, then sure...but i strongly believe that it gives you a cleaner (and easier) sound to work with in a live environment.
1
i have found that micing in loud environments personally not as suitable for bass, "generally" due to that harsher frequencies clash with the mic. and that using a DI to get a much cleaner signal to the PA. which is my main cause of concern...however in a studio i would totally both mic to get a nice warmth and take a direct signal for some punch.
2
as a sound engineer (yes is am one of TTHHHEEEMMM) by career aslo, i understand that its about producing the sound that the band wishes to hear. and i will often (if i know which bands im mixing) will do my research and get their albums listen to them non stop to understand their sound. understanding artists is imperative if one is to replicate them live, if they have certain suggestions and specifics, im totally open. but if i feel that something would sound better done differently, i have no problem in suggesting otherwise too. i believe that it should be a 2 way street.
3
i would agree entirely with that. and 2 solutions.
1. take the DI output of the amplifier. any sounds effects etc would be sent to the PA system.
2. take the 1/4" out from the last effects pedal before the amp, go into the DI. then the PA will get the balanced signal, then the through output on the DI will go to the amp.
if a band is completely adamant about using a mic, then sure...but i strongly believe that it gives you a cleaner (and easier) sound to work with in a live environment.
Well I'll admit that going to the REDDI cleaned up some bleed from the hihat and snare, but it wasn't a big deal quite honestly, and I still like a mic'ed amp sound over any other DI except the REDDI, and bassists do have their reasons for wanting it, just as guitarists do. At least you'll mic a bass amp if the band really wants it, so that's cool...but not everyone is looking for cleaner. I like clean but I certainly don't want the bass to sound like a big banjo 
It's a legendary thread... There's a PDF version... hang on... http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=835391&postcount=2093
You should spread the love by sharing the thread
His mantra 'You only need your ears' is part of my sig for a reason...
godofthunder59
Life is short, buy the bass.
- Feb 19, 2006
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I always mic a cab. Often I'll be told well we don't have another mic or there isn't a free channel. I carry my own mic and stand, and I can do without the DI. problem solved.
