Where the sound come from?

[HolmeBass]

The properties of wood, and the impact they have on tone, vary extensively from tree to tree. So much so that it isn’t too hard to find a maple fingerboard bass that is “warm”, or a rosewood fingerboard bass that is “snappy “.

“Warm” and “snappy” are themselves subjective descriptions.

Overall I think the tone of an instrument is a some what unpredictable gestalt of all the components used to assemble the instrument, and the quality of the workmanship.

 

[MojaveVox]

The "Maple boards are snappier than Rosewood" is the trope I hear most often, but in all the blind tests I've seen, damned if I can hear it. I love Alembic basses, but if you really want to drink the Coolaide on Tonewood, check out the poetic descriptions on their website, which sound like articles from a Fine Wine magazine, with amusing notes of ebony and hints of cocobolo adding a smooth body and fruity finish. Superb marketing and the purest BS. Making a bass out of beautiful materials is a worthy goal in itself, if it sounds great too, all the better.

Alembic - Fine handcrafted basses and guitars

Used to be quite a big Alembic fan, and have always been a big tonewood skeptic, my foray with Alembics put the issue to bed for me for good. I’ve owned 3 Series 1 basses at different points of time and they all sounded near identical to me despite very different wood combinations. They all had that sterile hi-fi sound that I really grew to hate over time. They’re beautiful works of art for sure, but I’ve come to realize that besides weight, the wood of a bass is hardly a factor I put too much thought into anymore.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I like wood.
I like electronics.
I like hardware.
I like strings.
I like amps and speakers.

I like steak.
I like potatoes
I like Garlic
I like beer
I like whiskey.

I build basses
I cook

I drink beer, I drink whiskey.

Beer, whiskey, steak, basses made of wood.

It's a recipe, the ingredients are essentially the same from recipe to recipie.

The results vary wildly depending on the execution, the ratio and the preparation.

The perception varies also from the experiencer to experiencer.

The results are a melange of the components , presentation and preparation.

I can predict that a lager beer will differ from an ale, and can define what those differences will likely be.

I can expect a flank steak to differ from a filet mignon , and will know generally what those differences will be.

It's the same with basses. A general idea of the contributions from each of the components in the recipie.
No way to predict the exact outcome, but not with absolute certainty that this single malt will compliment my garlic buttered filet in the way I expect


If not I pour another 2 fingers, and stop caring so much.

 

[Green Hornet]

Hi
Just an FYI: If you are interested in woods and their tonal qualities, I suggest checking out the Warmoth guitar (Warmoth.com) site.
Look for ' Wood Options' and there it will describe the various aspects (sound, visual) of the standard woods used in instrument making. The site was recently redesigned so it is easier to navigate. I also have had good experiences when I called and talked to a technician there. Hopefully that might answer some of your questions. Of course, pickups (type & placement), strings, amp/DI, etc..also play a big roll in over-all sound.
Have fun in your quest.
P.S. If you search Youtube, there you will find people who make instruments out of non-standard materials: plywood, Legos, concrete...

 

[dwizum]

...and the thread has hit the home page.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Hi
Just an FYI: If you are interested in woods and their tonal qualities, I suggest checking out the Warmoth guitar (Warmoth.com) site.
Look for ' Wood Options' and there it will describe the various aspects (sound, visual) of the standard woods used in instrument making. The site was recently redesigned so it is easier to navigate. I also have had good experiences when I called and talked to a technician there. Hopefully that might answer some of your questions. Of course, pickups (type & placement), strings, amp/DI, etc..also play a big roll in over-all sound.
Have fun in your quest.
P.S. If you search Youtube, there you will find people who make instruments out of non-standard materials: plywood, Legos, concrete...

Cardboard, colored pencils...

 

[J R Knots]

Hey everyone! I have been searching this kind of info, and there is a huge world out there!
can you share your opinion on this?
how you split the sound of your best bass in term of:

• woods used: body, neck, fretboard.
• construction.
• painting or finishing
• tunners.
• bridge
• pickups: location and construction:alnico/ ceramic/ neodymium.
• electronics.

Thanks.

I tend to agree with most of comments made throughout the thread.

One area of differentiating the impact of the wood on the sound is to listen to the sustainability of the instrument unamplified.

I notice two of my basses different woods , same strings, similar scale lengths will hold a note longer and have a different way of decaying.

I own a couple electric acoustic basses made by the the same manufacturer that sound remarkably different, if you record with a microphone- definitely true as well if you use the electronics with them.

Where all the components that make up the instruments will effect your sound, your fingers will impact it the most.

 

[micguy]

Everything contributes to a degree - as physicist, I know that. The only question is how much. That we can (we've demonstrated this many times over) argue about.

Here's my practical stance on all this: If the look, the feel, the smell, the cost, the weight, the balance, the color, - if anything about a particular bass makes you like it, or believe it sounds better then the next bass on the rack, and that belief persists to where you want to play it so much that you practice more, that bass will absolutely (at least eventually) sound better. Nothing is more important than how much inspired practice you have under your belt, and whatever makes you want to play, even if it costs a few grand, it's worth it.

 

[Blackjac97]

I'm a skeptic, so I'll just say, think like James Randi. Find a way to absolutely prove your idea or claim, because if you can't absolutely prove it, how valid is it? Think of the person who claimed they could see an "aura" around a person and that it came off their body visibly to a distance of say 4 inches (10cm). Randi said, sure, no problem, so then if I have a person here who's 5' 10" tall, and I place them behind a wall that is 5' 11" tall, you should be able to identify their location behind the wall based on the visible aura projecting off them to a distance of 4", right? Guess how successful they were at identifying location based on the person's aura?

Things must be connected causally to make a claim of causality, anything less is speculative. To my mind, given the systemic interplay of the parts of a musical instrument, especially an electrified one, at best we are making guessimates, clever though many of them are.

I think 4" is a real stretch for an aura. I've never seen one project beyond 1/2", maybe 1" tops. No wonder the test didn't work, it was rigged!!

 

[micguy]

I think 4" is a real stretch for an aura. I've never seen one project beyond 1/2", maybe 1" tops. No wonder the test didn't work, it was rigged!!

Anyone doing serious aura research (actually, anyone doing any serious research) works in the metric system. That's why I don't believe the story. ;-)

 

[RichterScale]

Not to brag, but I have at least a 5" aura.
I think it's genetic and varies.

 

[4stringfarley]

Pickups
Speaker Cab
Strings
AMP
How much you had to drink during the set
Air humidity
feet above sea level
current social atmosphere in Madagascar
Electronics
Woods
Build
Paint

 

[Lackey]

Wood matters - not as much as strings, pickups, scale, technique... But still.

However, most tonewoods are pretty similar to one another. And no factory produced instrument is gonna have any consistency regarding wood selection.

Now Tobias and other guys with a warehouse full of wood, who take the time to look listen and feel to each blank or block... Yeah that can make a difference. How much of a difference? Who knows..

 

[Pings Bass]

1. Pickups and electronics
2. Strings
3. Fingers

 

[Gilmourisgod]

The original Steinberger L2 basses had not one scrap of wood in them, they were all laid up in molds like a boat hull, using CF fiber and resin, and to this day, they are the only basses I've played that sounded absolutely identical bass to bass. You might or might not like that identical tone, some described it as "sterile", though I highly doubt anyone could pick one out of a lineup in a true blind test. This makes sense, of course, identical materials, pickups, electronics, strings, the players touch, etc. are probably going to generate virtually identical tone, but that's not possible with a wood instrument, where by definition, each neck and body is essentially unique. I assume if you put 10 mass-produced Fender P-Basses on an occiloscope, you'd find some subtle differences in output, the question is can the average person hear it, or would it be even remotely audible in a band situation.

To further muddy the waters, I did a sort of inadvertent Tonewood test a few years ago when I transferred EVERYTHING (including the strings) from my Steinberger XP-2, which has a small rock maple "flying-vee" body, to this home-made mahogany body. I think we can all agree that the plastic pickguard probably didn't have much effect on tone? I did this largely for fun, but I was hoping to "warm" the sound up a little. Lo and behold, it did, at least to my ears. I fully accept this might be confirmation bias, which is kind of inescapable, even in supposedly "blind" tests. The mahogany body is demonstrably less "stiff" than the maple body, how much that actually changed the tone is anybody's guess.

 

[Deleted member 365158]

Pickups absolutely but don’t forget about placement as well

i had to do this to make sure.

 

[Rôckhewer]

Making a bass out of beautiful materials is a worthy goal in itself, if it sounds great too, all the better.

Bingo! ^^^^^
And I feel that the term "tonewood" is a misnomer... or is perceived incorrectly.
Tonewood to me is timber that is structurally and aesthetically appropriate for instrument building. (Like... I wouldn't build a bass from a Palo Verde tree.... not tonewood).
Similar to the difference in brass alloys being appropriate for use in wind instruments ("musical" brass)

It becomes based on feelings, and not on facts. And once it reaches that point, I don't really see any reason to talk about it any more

Or... it could be said that that point being reached... IS the point.
Making music... and "feelings" are fairly intertwined. Artists are emotional.
Say an instrument sounds great, performs well... but is an aesthetic nightmare.
MM Bongo comes to mind for me but whatever.
I don't care how good that bass sounds... I'd rather not be on stage playing a toilet seat.

Conversely.... if one opens their instrument case, a golden glow shines forth... and a chorus of angels sing in your soul?... because you're so proud of that finely crafted sexy beast??
A positive attitude (ego) and confidence in one's instrument can go a long way to enhance performance art..... thusly... you "sound" better because you play better.

 

[Doug4321]

I’m not sure about species of woods etc., but I feel like there is a difference in a resonant bass, versus one that doesn’t resonate much or at all (a stiff construction?). In the latter the string is more like vibrating in isolation so sustains longer, sounds brighter, with more metallic twang, and doesn’t have much warm/woody/hollow tonal character added. A resonant bass usually has solid block of fairly light wood, or a hollow body. Non or less resonant basses tend to be dense, heavy, maybe with many dense pieces of wood laminated together.

My latest theory!

Otherwise, it’s certain the type and placement of pickups is a big influence on the sound. Certainly the strings and playing technique are huge, but aren’t really intrinsic to the bass, which is the original question.

 

[Blackjac97]

Not to brag, but I have at least a 5" aura.
I think it's genetic and varies.

 

[RichterScale]

To use Geddy as a reference yet again, he owns/collected close to 300 basses since they stopped touring. He has 25 jazz basses and says that his one '72 that he found in a pawn shop for $200, just has something special about it that makes it his favorite. I believe "mojo" was the word. To anyone else, there's no discernible difference. There's no discernible difference to him either. He has no idea what makes it different. It just "feels" different.
So, is there an actual difference somewhere in the fibers of the wood that can be measured if we deconstructed it? Was the PH in the soil, where the tree grew, that was used in the body, slightly higher or lower? Was the person who installed the frets a witch, who chanted over it?
It may very well be all in his mind and it simply makes him feel and play differently when he picks up that particular bass.
He even said that when they got their advance for their first record deal, the first thing he did was go buy a Ric, because of Chris Squire. He was disappointed that he plugged it in and sounded nothing like Chris Squire.
He ended up with his own sound which, of course, inspired following generations to play and buy a Ric, hoping to sound like Geddy. And the process repeats, generation after generation. The point is, the instrument itself can only get you to a certain point. 2 different people can play the exact same instrument and it sounds like 2 completely different basses.
So, you are 90% of what contributes to how you sound.