In addition to varying stiffness across wood species, variables across instruments of density, mass, and possibly surface area come into play regarding resonance. Can anyone set up a blind listening test between Shovelman's shovel and an SG?
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Where the sound come from?
- Thread starter Ramirogg10
- Start date
Smooth_bass88
vaxx!
- Oct 31, 2006
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- have been on nationally released albums, charting on the Billboard 200
I think it would be fun to build a bass out of some whacky materials, record a few sound clips and just have fun for a few days, having people guess what it looks like, what it's made of, what electronics it has, etc.
Not to prove a point, just for fun.
Then after a few days, post pics of whatever it is (ie; a table leg with a single coil strat PUP and 3 strings, etc).
Not to prove a point, just for fun.
Then after a few days, post pics of whatever it is (ie; a table leg with a single coil strat PUP and 3 strings, etc).
sounds like the original question is just about the bass itself, not other stuff, like strings, player, amp etc.
posted to the luthier’s corner….
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D
Deleted member 165050
Guest
You see you are all missing the single most important factor in sound. Ok the two most important factors. Or three. Amongst the most important factors in your sound are:
1. Air. Air affects tone. Anyone who doesn't agree, please go and study acoustics. Temperature and humidity of air affect not only the speed of sound, but also attenuation at differing frequencies. Your sound is literally, measurably different depending on the air that surrounds you. You will sound different at the top of Mont Blanc to the bottom of the Cheddar Gorge, or when it's raining, or if it's summer or winter.
2. Your ear. Most people are born with fully functional hearing. Few people have that in old age. You hearing is always non-linear but as you age and your hearing changes so do the non-linear characteristics of your hearing in respect of sensitivity to different frequencies at different sound pressure levels. Any audiologists feel free to chime in - acoustics courses only cover basic audiology.
3. Your brain. Sound is only sound when your brain captures those little electro-chemical signals coming from your basilar membranes and presents them to the rest of your brain as the experience we know as sound. But maybe that also changes with age. Struggling with this one but I think that message is clear
So basically forget all that tonewood alnico magnet roundwound flatwound stuff, just make sure you play in the right place and your hearing still works. Then you'll sound good, no matter what your bass is or what it's plugged into.
1. Air. Air affects tone. Anyone who doesn't agree, please go and study acoustics. Temperature and humidity of air affect not only the speed of sound, but also attenuation at differing frequencies. Your sound is literally, measurably different depending on the air that surrounds you. You will sound different at the top of Mont Blanc to the bottom of the Cheddar Gorge, or when it's raining, or if it's summer or winter.
2. Your ear. Most people are born with fully functional hearing. Few people have that in old age. You hearing is always non-linear but as you age and your hearing changes so do the non-linear characteristics of your hearing in respect of sensitivity to different frequencies at different sound pressure levels. Any audiologists feel free to chime in - acoustics courses only cover basic audiology.
3. Your brain. Sound is only sound when your brain captures those little electro-chemical signals coming from your basilar membranes and presents them to the rest of your brain as the experience we know as sound. But maybe that also changes with age. Struggling with this one but I think that message is clear
So basically forget all that tonewood alnico magnet roundwound flatwound stuff, just make sure you play in the right place and your hearing still works. Then you'll sound good, no matter what your bass is or what it's plugged into.
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D
Deleted member 165050
Guest
Yes always best to play at the top of a mountain in a lunar eclipse with Mercury rising in your natal chart or something like that...
Oh and remember the best basses are pulled out of a rock near Stonehenge.
Rôckhewer
Commercial User
- Feb 28, 2015
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When I finish a build, I hold it above my head and summon the power of Gray Scull.
The resultant plasma burst gives the wood a little cosmic torrefaction.
And my basses retain an aura of at least...
10 inches.
BobDeRosa
Commercial User
- May 16, 2012
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- Owner, Tritone Jazz Fantasy Camps
Can't we just play the damn things and stop overthinking them?
Wouw! I see there it is a topic that everyone cares on its way. I have another question: We, as bass builders cant know how will be the sound of our next bass, We can suppose something but the end result will be more or less a surprise. Of course I we are copying a p-bass with traditional components usually used in fender p basses, it will be sounding something similar to a p- bass, but If you are designing a bass, the final results in terms of sound will be not predictable, what do you think?
This. Exactly this. Only I would throw in strings as a MAJOR factor above and beyond construction of the instrument itself.
I think that if you are an experienced bass builder and familiar with many materials and construction methods, you will probably have a good feel for the general characteristics of the bass, before building it. Like, if it will end up being bright and have tons of sustain, based on construction, pickups, etc. But the very specific sound of the final product will probably always be a bit of a surprise on custom one-off builds.
Sorry, that's not how being nuts, works.
I think there is always an element of surprise but it is probably much smaller than expected in some situations. I have some designs that I've built several copies of, sometimes literally identical but sometimes with very small tweaks here and there. I stopped getting surprised at around the third or fourth copy of those designs.
If you have your head focused on the actual details instead of lost in marketing-speak, and you're controlling (if not building from scratch) the parts that matter, this just isn't as much of a mystery as it's sometimes made out to be among people who's experience is more along the lines of plucking instruments off the music store wall and then wondering why they're different. I'm clearly not the most experienced or expert builder out there, and this may come off as over-confidence, but I just really don't think this is as complicated or random as we all talk ourselves into thinking it is.
If you have your head focused on the actual details instead of lost in marketing-speak, and you're controlling (if not building from scratch) the parts that matter, this just isn't as much of a mystery as it's sometimes made out to be among people who's experience is more along the lines of plucking instruments off the music store wall and then wondering why they're different. I'm clearly not the most experienced or expert builder out there, and this may come off as over-confidence, but I just really don't think this is as complicated or random as we all talk ourselves into thinking it is.
drumvsbass
Commercial User
- Aug 20, 2011
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- I work for Long and McQuade Musical Instruments Canada in Sales.
Pickup placement is the numero uno voicing of the instrument. No Precision sounds like a Jazz or a Stingray or a Ric without some fiddling. Next would be the electronics. Third would probably be strings. Then the material of the instrument, woods, bridge, frets, nut. Lastly would be the actual physical shape of the instrument, I think it makes no difference at all. But Red basses definitely sound better.
+1 on a guitar's tone coming from the player... so very true. A friend of mine (fantastic guitarist) works at a music store... he can pick up anything in the shop (cheap, expensive, vintage, new) and make it sound like a gem.
But aside from that, I believe that neck wood FAR exceeds body wood on a tone contribution factor. So many people get so hung up on what the body wood is on a guitar... and this website has housed PLENTY of proof of that.
I swapped necks on my Strat a few years ago (went from an all-maple neck to a similar all-pau ferro neck while keeping the same components on the guitar) and the difference was night and day.
Pickups/electronics contribute strongly to the tone.
Bridge material and design is also a big factor.
But aside from that, I believe that neck wood FAR exceeds body wood on a tone contribution factor. So many people get so hung up on what the body wood is on a guitar... and this website has housed PLENTY of proof of that.
I swapped necks on my Strat a few years ago (went from an all-maple neck to a similar all-pau ferro neck while keeping the same components on the guitar) and the difference was night and day.
Pickups/electronics contribute strongly to the tone.
Bridge material and design is also a big factor.
D
Deleted member 165050
Guest
There is plenty of evidence supporting that opinion. I'm sure someone can repost the various vibration analysis links...
When I read that a builder builds a bass body of mahogany for warmth and then adds a maple top for snap or something similar, I'm very skeptical, to say the least. I think different woods affect how the strings vibrate to some extent, but maybe not in any predictable way aside from grossly different densities and weights, if then. But for some reason my old, very light, alder 68 Precision seems to sound better than any other precision I've played.
The argument reminds me of a debate in saxophone world. It has been demonstrated in many peer reviewed studies that the material a woodwind instrument is made of does not affect its tone. But sone players just can not accept this, no matter what. Manufacturers don't help, because they will gladly sell you an instrument made of more expensive material, and they all describe aspects of tone that they attribute to different materials. They will even tell you that different platings over the brass make tonal differences. The thing is, none of the manufacturers agree on how material affects tone. One might say that silver is brighter, while another says silver mellows the tone. In any case, the actual production of sound in a wind instrument has nothing to do with the material, and everything to do with the geometry of the instrument. The vibrations of a saxophone body do not produce anything audible. Apropo zilch.
The argument reminds me of a debate in saxophone world. It has been demonstrated in many peer reviewed studies that the material a woodwind instrument is made of does not affect its tone. But sone players just can not accept this, no matter what. Manufacturers don't help, because they will gladly sell you an instrument made of more expensive material, and they all describe aspects of tone that they attribute to different materials. They will even tell you that different platings over the brass make tonal differences. The thing is, none of the manufacturers agree on how material affects tone. One might say that silver is brighter, while another says silver mellows the tone. In any case, the actual production of sound in a wind instrument has nothing to do with the material, and everything to do with the geometry of the instrument. The vibrations of a saxophone body do not produce anything audible. Apropo zilch.
skill of player
electronics/pickups
strings
structure (hollow/semi/chambered/solid)
is 96%.
all other is 6%
and yes, I don't know how to add.
electronics/pickups
strings
structure (hollow/semi/chambered/solid)
is 96%.
all other is 6%
and yes, I don't know how to add.
