Which Amp for what? For Newbie..

[Dewdman42]

I am a new bass player. I am trying to get a handle on how and why certain PreAmps/amps/combos have a certain kind of sound compared to others and when or why I'd want to use one of another. I see a lot of comments on this forum about the "SVT" sound or whatever...or people like a certain thing..but really most of that commentary assumes I have the slightest clue what an SVT sounds like vs some other like a Fender Bassman...or why one might be preferable over another for certain kinds of music or whatever. Or what rigs certain famous players are using, as a guideline.

I do have a modeler, THE GT-1B and I am fooling around with it and definitely can hear lots of differences between different preamps and cabs...but honestly...I have no idea how or why one would be preferable over another for certain situations...

Can we have a discussion that gets into the nitty gritty about the characteristics of the various popular amps out there? What specifically is it about each one that gives it its characteristic sound?

My modeler has models for SVT, B-15, Bassman, SWR SM-400, Acoustic360, GK 880RB, Little Mark III, and then some generic things like a flat response amp and and acoustic bass amp. I'm just wondering what are the actual characteristics of these different amps that would make me want to choose for different situations.

 

[Killing Floor]

You should walk with the knowledge that louder is better and stacks and stacks hold open the gates of Heaven.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I am a new bass player. I am trying to get a handle on how and why certain PreAmps/amps/combos have a certain kind of sound compared to others and when or why I'd want to use one of another. I see a lot of comments on this forum about the "SVT" sound or whatever...or people like a certain thing..but really most of that commentary assumes I have the slightest clue what an SVT sounds like vs some other like a Fender Bassman...or why one might be preferable over another for certain kinds of music or whatever. Or what rigs certain famous players are using, as a guideline.

I do have a modeler, THE GT-1B and I am fooling around with it and definitely can hear lots of differences between different preamps and cabs...but honestly...I have no idea how or why one would be preferable over another for certain situations...

Can we have a discussion that gets into the nitty gritty about the characteristics of the various popular amps out there? What specifically is it about each one that gives it its characteristic sound?

My modeler has models for SVT, B-15, Bassman, SWR SM-400, Acoustic360, GK 880RB, Little Mark III, and then some generic things like a flat response amp and and acoustic bass amp. I'm just wondering what are the actual characteristics of these different amps that would make me want to choose for different situations.

Disregard everything you see on your modeler. They don't sound, or play like any bass amp on earth. Not saying you can't get great tones from them, just don't count on anything on there sounding like that when you plug into one.

That said, you need to either try a few out at guitar center, or youtube the crap out of everything you read about.




What's your budget?

What your genre?

What's your volume level, and practicality? (Practice at home, live band, live in an apartment)

 

[Dewdman42]

Can you please describe the characteristics of these different amps? I will not be able to try any of the real ones out any time soon.. I'm just wanting to have an actual discussion about the characteristics of each of these amps. I hear you that a modeler is not as good as the real thing. We can talk about the real things and their differences, that is fine.

 

[gtirard]

What we try to explain is that you really need to experience these kind of sounds in order to understand, no description will help you because there's something physical about it.

 

[Dewdman42]

Well I can't. What I have access to right now is this forum. If you have nothing valuable to add to the discussion, that's ok. But we can try to talk about it, share videos, or any other discussion about the characteristics of these amps, it would be helpful to me. if you are unable to contribute to that thought process, I understand.

 

[Michedelic]

Well I can't. What I have access to right now is this forum. If you have nothing valuable to add to the discussion, that's ok. But we can try to talk about it, share videos, or any other discussion about the characteristics of these amps, it would be helpful to me. if you are unable to contribute to that thought process, I understand.

Let’s start with what we all have done at some point, usually at the beginning of our playing career…who are your favorite bands/bass players, what songs(and the bass sounds)have impressed you the most, and have you experienced it live? Then we can narrow it down, although there are many other factors that contribute beyond just the amplification.
Keep in mind that player X may use amp Y live, but for recording, amp Z gets utilized. You could give 10 different bassists a P and an SVT rig, and end up with 10 different sounds. A T-bird and a Ric will theoretically sound different through the same amp, but sometimes you might not be able to tell owing to recording techniques.
What was the first player or song that made you sit up and say, “I wanna do that!”? With that kind of info we can have a better idea of what to explain. Just as an example, tube amp brands utilize different tube types, and that will affect the sound substantially. Driver configuration can have a big influence as well.

 

[Dewdman42]

I am not looking for anything. I am trying to open a discussion to compare the different popular amps.

Let's start with the P+SVT. That is very popular. Its like the Marshall is for guitar. I get it. I don't intend to lug one around, but I've played guitar in bands that had one and it indeed sounded perfect for rock. Low-mids penetrate. There is subtle amount of distortion happening to warm up the sound. No question in my mind.if I were playing in a band that had roadies hauling my gear that is what I'd be using.

Ok.. now what about some of the others. Not everyone loves the SVT. So why not? what is different?

etc..

 

[SJan3]

I am not looking for anything. I am trying to open a discussion to compare the different popular amps.

Let's start with the P+SVT. That is very popular. Its like the Marshall is for guitar. I get it. I don't intend to lug one around, but I've played guitar in bands that had one and it indeed sounded perfect for rock. Low-mids penetrate. There is subtle amount of distortion happening to warm up the sound. No question in my mind.if I were playing in a band that had roadies hauling my gear that is what I'd be using.

Ok.. now what about some of the others. Not everyone loves the SVT. So why not? what is different?

etc..

Of your modelers, only the SVT and LittleMark 3 are current. As you don't want to move an SVT, and I don't blame you, MarkBass has a wide variety of amps that you can hear on YouTube.

 

[Dewdman42]

I only used those examples, this discussion can be more open ended to discuss any and all popular amps and their sound/feel characteristics, not just the ones that are modeled in my floor pedal.

 

[hbarcat]

@Dewdman42,

There are countless examples of recordings of songs that exemplify iconic amps and basses.

It's theoretically possible to make a list of these recordings along with the amp that was used to record them with.

But the reality is that it's not that simple because there are just too many variables involved that get added to the mix and complicate the results so that what you hear may or may not be representative. You're left with the task of listening to endless recordings and comparing notes concerning what exactly went into these mixes to make them sound the way they do.

It isn't just the amp. The bass and pickups, strings, microphone or DI, speaker cabinet, player technique, additional processing gear, EQ and compression settings, the way the bass track is mixed, and how the song is mastered, all alter the sound.

My best advise it to work from the opposite direction. Instead of trying to find representative recordings of specific bass amps, I would start with specific songs that you think have distinctive bass sounds and then research what bass amps were used to record them, along with whatever other equipment and techniques were added.

Just one example: Listen to the studio version of "Poison Whiskey" from the album "Pronounced" by Lynyrd Skynyrd. Pay attention to how the bass sounds. It's extremely growly with a lot of "fuzz"

Search the interwebz to find out who the bassist was and what equipment he used, then go from there.

Another example would be "Penny Lane" by The Beatles. Search for Paul McCartney and his bass equipment.

Now do that with about 800 different songs with distinctive bass sounds and you're on your way.

 

[Dewdman42]

maybe if you want to contribute you can comment on YOUR rig and specifically WHY you like the way it sounds.

 

[Snert]

Well I can't. What I have access to right now is this forum.

Using words to describe tone is inherently limited and very flawed. As is using a recording as you have no idea how it was mic'd, EQd or otherwise processed. Even people I know well personally, their descriptions rarely convey how *I* perceive it when I hear it in person. Honestly, the best thing you can do is go to a get together of bassists and try their gear or go to a large store and try a bunch of stuff.

I'm sorry this isn't the answer you want, but that's how life works sometimes.

 

[Dewdman42]

Funny how many people feel inclined to respond with excuses for why this topic can't be discussed. Very odd actually. Anyway, the thread will always be here in case someone actually wants to contribute thoughts about why this or that AMP is their choice for whatever situation. I'm genuinely interested. I'm very happy for you people that have had an opportunity to play through all these famous amps and know exactly why you're using whatever you're using...even though you're incapable of explaining it. I guess in a few years maybe I will get the opportunity to play through them also. In the meantime, I hope someone will offer true expertise in this area of sound design...it will be helpful to me.

kind regards.

 

[wjl]

Hey @Dewdman42 - welcome, good to have you around in the deep tone crowd!

In my youth, I had/played almost everything. I played over a borrowed Bassman which I didn't really like, bought an Orange, then an Acoustic, later a full SVT rig with its two fridges. Plus a Peavey combo. Loved them all for what they delivered.

And no, I didn't really use a distorted SVT sound, but tube warmth is always nice. During that time I discovered Jaco and his fretless singing sound, so I went to the opposite of a scooped Marcus Miller like sound, with raising the mids a bit to get those nice flagiolets. Worked with all amps, liked that SVT the most I guess, but schlepping it around with maybe 38kg for the head and 2x70kg for the cabinets was kinda "fun"...

After as hiatus of about 35 years without any instrument or amp, I bought a Squier P (fretless, finally!) in 2017, then helped out in a smallish orchestra whose bass player had to pause because of carpal tunnel syndrome and an operation, so I needed an amp again. I went for a small MarkBass CMD Players School, the one with the black speaker, plenty loud enough for my P, and it also sounds nice.

The sound you want starts in your head actually, like some others wrote already. Try your modeled amps and see if one of them - maybe without using a cabinet? - comes close to what you'd try to achieve.

Nowadays I go directly in (into a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen), and since I'm running Linux I have some freebie goodies like the SVT from the Guitarix project (GxSVT). But I also get a good tone without that, just with EQ, compressor, and maybe sometimes some effects like reverb or chorus on a seperate bus track for that, so I'm kind of parallel processing (modern modelers like the Line6 range can do that in the box as well I think).

Yes, different amps have different characteristics. If I could afford it I'd probably get an original B-15 or maybe something which comes close like the newer PF-20T and PF-50T or a Noble direct box. But I can't, and I don't need to, since I'm only an oldish amateur with limited skills.

Oh, and maybe - just maybe - I'll get an HX Stomp when they're available again, or a Zoom B6 which would probably be better for the piezo pickup in my upright...

Hope that helps?

Cheers,
Wolfgang

 

[Snert]

Funny how many people feel inclined to respond with excuses for why this topic can't be discussed. Very odd actually.

How about decades of actual experience which you seem ready to just dismiss rather than use that.

I assume you've had sex. Would words on a forum ever describe how it feels?

 

[Dewdman42]

Hey @Dewdman42 - welcome, good to have you around in the deep tone crowd!

Thanks. I've been down this road with guitar for years. Bass is a new thing for me so I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around things. For example, when talking about Guitar, there is definitely a difference in tone between say a Marshall and a Fender. They are both awesome in their own way. A fender can "chime". A Marshall just sounds like every favorite rock guitarist you ever knew. That's an over-generalization and just a tip of the iceberg, but I don't want to get on a tangent about guitar..just point out..its possible to discuss these amps and their characteristics...why people would choose one over another.

In my youth, I had/played almost everything. I played over a borrowed Bassman which I didn't really like

Can you comment on why you didn't like it. I realize it was a long time ago, but you might remember some things about it. Does the Rumble line sound similar as the Bassman when using the built in preamp, by the way does anyone know?

, bought an Orange, then an Acoustic, later a full SVT rig with its two fridges. Plus a Peavey combo. Loved them all for what they delivered.

Can you put into words or refer to any artists or songs which represent any of those bass amp sounds that you said you loved "for what they delivered"?

And no, I didn't really use a distorted SVT sound, but tube warmth is always nice.

That's what I meant when I said the SVT has some built in light distortion. The tube warmth IS distortion. its just subtle. Same reason guitar tube amps will NEVER be replaced by solid state...(excluding modeling).

During that time I discovered Jaco and his fretless singing sound, so I went to the opposite of a scooped Marcus Miller like sound, with raising the mids a bit to get those nice flagiolets. Worked with all amps, liked that SVT the most I guess, but schlepping it around with maybe 38kg for the head and 2x70kg for the cabinets was kinda "fun"...

Yea I am approaching 60, will not be schlepping around an SVT, but I'm pretty sure I would fall in love with it if I had one. But I also love Marshalls and rock music and THAT sound. However I am not limiting myself to rock bass music this time.

The sound you want starts in your head actually, like some others wrote already. Try your modeled amps and see if one of them - maybe without using a cabinet? - comes close to what you'd try to achieve.

Well first I don't have a bass sound in my head. For one thing I haven't been paying close enough attention to bass sounds to even know what I want. Secondly I like a LOT of different bass sounds I hear, it totally depends on the music being played along with it, the situation.

What I can say so far is that the SVT models push the low-mids, and I bump the gain every so slightly and get some of the warmth we're talking about. I notice the RocketBass amps have their SVT circuit also that does some similar stuff....emulates tube warmth. And I really like it a lot. But it also sounds less "clear" to me. I can see rocking a rock band with the SVT sound almost exclusively and never concern another minute with other models...but as I said, I'm looking to go into different styles of music, including rock, but not only rock.

what about that Acoustic 360. The first impression, I didn't spend a lot of time with it...but it was HUGE bottom end in comparison to the SVT model.

The bassman model sounded boring and mediocre, but I didn't spend a lot of time with it or understand what kind of tone I should be trying to get out of it. Same with the SWR, Markbass and GK models.

Yes, different amps have different characteristics. If I could afford it I'd probably get an original B-15

There is a B15 model also. What is it specifically about the B-15 you like?

 

[Dewdman42]

How about decades of actual experience which you seem ready to just dismiss rather than use that.

I'd like to hear from your decades of experience rather just dismiss my question as you have done sir. If you have something interesting to contribute I will be very glad to hear it, but so far all you are telling me to do is go away and shut up here.

 

[Snert]

I'd like to hear from your decades of experience rather just dismiss my question as you have done sir. If you have something interesting to contribute I will be very glad to hear it, but so far all you are telling me to do is go away and shut up here.

You need to improve your reading and comprehension, because right now it stinks. You were advised to go and listen for yourself because words don't convey tone very well.
You were never told by me (or anyone else in this thread) to go away and shut up. Keep playing victim, it's obviously a talent you've practiced.

 

[gtirard]

Funny how many people feel inclined to respond with excuses for why this topic can't be discussed. Very odd actually. Anyway, the thread will always be here in case someone actually wants to contribute thoughts about why this or that AMP is their choice for whatever situation. I'm genuinely interested. I'm very happy for you people that have had an opportunity to play through all these famous amps and know exactly why you're using whatever you're using...even though you're incapable of explaining it. I guess in a few years maybe I will get the opportunity to play through them also. In the meantime, I hope someone will offer true expertise in this area of sound design...it will be helpful to me.

kind regards.

I understand and respect your point of view.

Let me try to explain this: imagine you never fell in love. You can read love stories, try to imagine how it feels, but the words you are going to read will not be meaningful for you until your experience your first love story. And we are bassists, not authors.

Anyway, sorry, next time I will just avoid answering this king of question, I understand my contribution was not helpful.