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Which blows up more speakers TUBE or SOLID STATE?

#23
I've been playing since 72 and never have blown a speaker with either tube or SS gear. I played in a few loud bands too. Maybe I've been damn lucky, or I was doing things right all along, as to how I was running my gear.
 
#24
It MAY be user error.. but alot of you guys that may have never blown speakers are not playing at crazy volumes... and as the OP said, hes been playing punk, industrial..etc... Many times these bands are playing at apocalyptic volume with inadequated PA support sometimes. Ive never blown a speaker cos i really listen to what Im doing, but sometimes that means Im not as loud as i should be for the rest of the band... thats ok to me... BUT what the OP should probably do if thats an issue is to add more cabinets, which i have done, to be able to achieve higher volumes with less speaker stress per speaker. THINK JUCIFER.
that said, you can blow anything with anything if you try... but the tube amps will give you a little more grace in getting there.
 
#26
I've blown half a dozen speakers over the years. I always knew it was about to happen, though- I just decided to 'go for it' for various admittedly-bad reasons... (last song of particularly rockin set, Ashbory sub-bass calculated abuse, sub-standard backline provided at fly gig, etc...)
 
#27
I haven't noticed much difference. There are still multi-driver cabs galore with tons of bad drivers in them, with potential sellers looking for victims on CL (people like that used to have to place ads in newspapers). There are still club PAs with frazzled subwoofers and mains, and no caring paid operator to put them right, until it can no longer be avoided.

There are still guys playing boxes with bad drivers in them, sometimes not even aware until the next domino falls.

The louder a system is and the more parts the tougher it seems to be to hear individual distress signals within it, once you start playing at humongous stage volumes. And that's true of club PA where the operators can't really hear what's what because the system is getting overrun. When you get to smarter systems integration the use of HPF and limiting is calibrated and protects things a lot better, but in the trenches it can still be a mess.
 
#28
Calaverasgrande said:
I went to audio engineering school, ran a small regional PA company for a while. Never have been able to nail down an answer to this one
Click to expand...

Amps don't kill speakers - people kill speakers
As with many mechanical devices, a speaker will tell you when it's getting close to its' limits; the user needs to be trained to know what that sounds like as well as what changes in EQ (or volume) need to be implemented to avoid damage

The exception being giant one time transients. Once walked into a music store in the late 70's and there were a pile of speakers and horn drivers being brought in for recone; seems that a funk band thought it was a good idea to blow a police whistle into the lead vocal mic while simultaneosuly
lighting off flash pots with other vocal mics on and did not have any limiters or compressors on the mains.

Education is a good thing
 
#29
scotch said:
I've blown half a dozen speakers over the years. I always knew it was about to happen, though- I just decided to 'go for it' for various admittedly-bad reasons... (last song of particularly rockin set, Ashbory sub-bass calculated abuse, sub-standard backline provided at fly gig, etc...)
Click to expand...

Only time I've blown a speaker in 40+ years was with a Guild Ashbory.
Sounded great and didn't know it til the next day. Didn't just fail or fuzz out. I really listen to my cabs cause I like a clean well developed sound. I love grit when I want it.

So I say user behavior blows.:eek:
 
#30
JimmyM said:
right. total number of speakers i've blown in 35 years using both solid state and tube...0.
Click to expand...

Well I should mention that I play with distortion-overdrive about 60-90% of the time. Depending on the band. I know its been said that you can hear a speaker complaining before it blows. Well its hard to hear when the signal is already distorted!
It of course is super easy to hear when you are running FOH standing 30 yards from the front of the stage.

There is also that, with the Ampeg and the Acoustic, it always sounded effing brilliant right before the cabs would blow.

Now, I haven't blown a cab in over 15 years.
This is just something that I have never gotten a satisfactory answer on.

I've been told I was blowing speakers with
  • distortion, speakers can't handle distortion.
  • bass-too much bass.
  • square waving the amp-and that melts the VC.
  • too much treble-bass speaker can't resolve the treble so it turns into heat.
 
#31
Calaverasgrande said:
Well I should mention that I play with distortion-overdrive about 60-90% of the time. Depending on the band. I know its been said that you can hear a speaker complaining before it blows. Well its hard to hear when the signal is already distorted!
Click to expand...

True, I've been playing live with so much overdrive.

Last fall was the first time I've ever blown a speaker in the 20 years I've had my main Mesa rig, or any other rig I've owned. Blew the 15" in the 1516 cab, the center tore right out of the cone. It was an outdoor show, but I've never played hellaciously loud. My old Boogie cabs and it's original drivers are old ('86 and '88), so I'm thinking that 15 simply let go from mostly a combination of age.
 
#32
Calaverasgrande said:
Well I should mention that I play with distortion-overdrive about 60-90% of the time. Depending on the band. I know its been said that you can hear a speaker complaining before it blows. Well its hard to hear when the signal is already distorted!
Click to expand...
That's where a hard limiter works wonders. Folded horn PA subs also don't reveal when being pushed too hard, they just stop working. A hard limiter eliminates that problem. Most players don't have the need for one, but the hundred bucks a limiter goes for gets paid for with one driver saved, let alone alleviating the PITA factor.
 
#35
billfitzmaurice said:
That's where a hard limiter works wonders. Folded horn PA subs also don't reveal when being pushed too hard, they just stop working. A hard limiter eliminates that problem. Most players don't have the need for one, but the hundred bucks a limiter goes for gets paid for with one driver saved, let alone alleviating the PITA factor.
Click to expand...
really? I've noticed that when the subs start sounding too good that means that a harmonic is creeping in. I got pretty good at hearing that over the years. Though to be sure I've mostly used direct radiating subs.
I also hate what limiters do for the tone. The ones on the SS ampegs are awful. There is also that on most bass amps I have owned, even if there is an effects loop it doesnt stick to the standard +4 -10 kind of levels. They are usually optimized to comprimise between line or inst level effects. So setting up a limiter on an acoustic 456 lets say is basically guesswork. Also, playing distorted means my signal is pretty devoid of peak material.
 
#37
Jim C said:
Bill,
What's your recomendation these days for an inexpensive limiter that will offer brick wall protection?
Click to expand...
No clue what's out there now, mine's a 12 year old ART.
really? I've noticed that when the subs start sounding too good that means that a harmonic is creeping in. I got pretty good at hearing that over the years. Though to be sure I've mostly used direct radiating subs.
Click to expand...
Folded horn subs filter out virtually all harmonic distortion, so there's usually no hint of impending doom.
 
#38
Calaverasgrande said:
Now, I haven't blown a cab in over 15 years.
This is just something that I have never gotten a satisfactory answer on.

I've been told I was blowing speakers with
  • distortion, speakers can't handle distortion.
  • bass-too much bass.
  • square waving the amp-and that melts the VC.
  • too much treble-bass speaker can't resolve the treble so it turns into heat.
Click to expand...

From what I've read on here, a lot of the tweeters on bass cabs these days hate distortion because it's a lot more high end than they're expecting to have to deal with. IIRC, the woofers themselves don't care how distorted it is.

Too much low end, I have read on here, can kill speakers. Most notably those without a very high Xmax or however it's called... maximum excursion. This is why using a guitar 2x12" for a reggae show might not be the best idea (well, one of the reasons).

Square waves... I don't think that really damages the speakers. Lots of electronic music has waveforms approaching square, and that stuff gets blasted. I think as long as the drivers aren't hitting their xmax or getting more power than the voice coil can handle, it's not really an issue.

As for treble damaging bass speakers? I don't think so. Maybe the cheaper tweeters used in some cabs, if the sound is really really trebly.
 

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