# Which is loudest?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by semborg, Mar 30, 2005.

1. ### semborg

Is 4x10 louder than 2x10 + 1x15?
(Generally)

2. ### Sutton

Mar 3, 2005
Plainwell, MI
louder?
Well, a 410 will appear to be louder because it is pushing more air. And the 15 could sound extremely loud since it'll be playing lows, and thus, vibrating things. But if you're talk8ing loudness in terms of wattage, then they should all be equal.

3. ### semborg

Is 4x10 pushing more air?
Now I start trying calculate. Correct me if I am wrong.

4x10 area:
10/2=5
5*5*pi=78.5
78.5*4=314
(where pi is 3,14)

2x10 + 1x15 area:
78.5*2=157
15/2=7,5
7,5*7,5*pi=176,625
177+157=334

With my calculation 2x10 + 1x15 has a bigger area (334) than 4x10 (314).

Am I correct?

4. ### dancehallclasher

Jul 21, 2000
Northern VA
yes, a 15 pushes more air than 2 10s.

5. ### billfitzmauriceCommercial User

Sep 15, 2004
New Hampshire
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Insufficient data. However, the 2x10/1x15 arrangement in most cases will work to a much lower frequency than a 4x10, so if a deeper tone is what you want that's likely the better route.

6. ### Sutton

Mar 3, 2005
Plainwell, MI
Oh wow, I though he/she was comparing a 410 to a 210 to a 115, I didnt realize it was a 410 to a 210+115. Then the 210+115 will push more air :-\

7. ### semborg

aha, no problem man
I am a he.

8. ### Sutton

Mar 3, 2005
Plainwell, MI
Lets look at the 212+210 setup though:
2x10 + 2x12 area:
78.5*2=157
12/2=6
6*6*pi=113
113*2=226
226+157=383

Or an 118+210 setup:
78.5*2=157
18/2=6
9*9*pi=254
254+157=411

Lol, I'm bored, sorry

9. ### PassinwindI Know NothingSupporting MemberCommercial User

Dec 3, 2003
Columbia River Gorge, WA.
Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
Now I start trying calculate. Correct me if I am wrong.

4x10 area:
10/2=5
5*5*pi=78.5
78.5*4=314
(where pi is 3,14)

2x10 + 1x15 area:
78.5*2=157
15/2=7,5
7,5*7,5*pi=176,625
177+157=334

The problem with these calculations is that 10 inch speakers are 10 inches at the mounting centers for the bolts/screws, and the radiating area is nowhere near that big. Same with 15s as well. You also haven't taken any coupling or cancellation effects of multiple drivers into account. Now consider that you're looking at truncated conical sections, not two dimensional round plates, and it appears to be a bit of a can o' worms, no?

10. ### Tash

Feb 13, 2005
Bel Air Maryland
Time to bust out the TI93s...

11. ### billfitzmauriceCommercial User

Sep 15, 2004
New Hampshire
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Very big can of worms. Cone area alone doesn't tell you squat. You also need to know excursion, sensitivity, bandwidth (-3db) and power handling. Knowing those five specifications can allow you to make a reasonable estimate of a drivers potential output capability. If any one of those factors is unknown an accurate prediction is not possible.

12. ### PickebassSupporting Member

Jul 12, 2004
San Antonio, TX
IME the 410s tend to be louder. However, the 210/115 combination tends to be fuller and provides more depth to sound. Not exactly apples to apples.

13. ### picklesGold Supporting Member

Mar 23, 2000
Ventura, CA
It is possible to overthink things, guys.

Any given 4x10 will not be much different in volume than a 210+15 of the same design, assuming you get the total impedence preseneted to the amp the same.

They will sound quite different, though.

semborg -- just tell us what rig you are running that is not loud enough for you, and we can make specific reccomendations.

14. ### R BriereBass-ically YoursSupporting Member

After reading all of those numbers, I've decided to quit playing bass and take up the piccolo.

15. ### picklesGold Supporting Member

Mar 23, 2000
Ventura, CA
I used to used an Eden D-210XLT + Eden D-115XLT, and now use an Aguilar GS-410, both with Ampeg Pre and ~1000w power amps. I find the sounds so different that it is hard to compare the "loudness". The old rig sounded fuller and fatter, and loud as hell ... the new rig is punchy and fast and loud as hell.

16. ### Kael

Dec 26, 2004
Oklahoma City

I'm old school baby. Straight up TI-85!

17. ### ihixuluSupporting Member

Mar 31, 2000
South Shore MA
Heh, my flute goes lower than your piccolo

18. ### illidian

Jul 2, 2004
I would think that a 4x10 would sound louder, but the 2x10 + 1x15 would sound bigger. This is assuming everything is the same, etc.

The 4x10 will sounds louder because our ears hear mids more, which the 4x10 should have more of. However, the the 2x10 + 1x15 will sound bigger because it will give a "fuller" response.

Disclaimer: Which sounds louder or bigger or anything is all dependant on the cabinet(s) and speakers. The best way to find out is to try the exact combination you're looking at and use your own ears.

19. ### Bob Lee (QSC)In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!Gold Supporting MemberCommercial User

Jul 3, 2001
Costa Mesa, Calif.
Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
Which is longer, a piece of string or a piece of yarn?

20. ### Kael

Dec 26, 2004
Oklahoma City
Ooh, ooh, I know!

The yarn right......