Which is most important to you? Freedom, Equality, or Order?

[ehque]

(Side note - it appears that many folks are confusing "anarchy" with "chaos" - they're not the same thing. If your neighbour points a gun at your head and tells you what to do, it isn't anarchy any more).

Some would argue that is government.

 

[UncleFluffy]

Some would argue that is government.

Yes, the bottom-line definition of government is "whoever holds a monopoly on violence in a region".

 

[ehque]

Yes, the bottom-line definition of government is "whoever holds a monopoly on violence in a region".

"The monopoly on legitimate violence" is the way i remembered it in PolSci 101.

 

[UncleFluffy]

"The monopoly on legitimate violence" is the way i remembered it in PolSci 101.

But the government is the definer of legitimacy, so "legitimate" is somewhat redundant.

 

[ehque]

But the government is the definer of legitimacy, so "legitimate" is somewhat redundant.

I don't think so. By this definition all governments are legitimate, and clearly some are not. If i am not wrong the people confer legitimacy to the government by believing in it's RIGHT to rule. If they don't, there's no legitimacy.

 

[UncleFluffy]

I don't think so. By this definition all governments are legitimate, and clearly some are not. If i am not wrong the people confer legitimacy to the government by believing in it's RIGHT to rule. If they don't, there's no legitimacy.

This point gets interesting, and can disappear into a pile of circular definitions, US Civil War references, and quotes along the lines of "democracy is two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner".

I'm too much of a pragmatist, and prefer to stick to the "can they make me do something I don't want to do?" test. Legitimacy is somewhat a matter of opinion.

 

[bassrique]

This point gets interesting, and can disappear into a pile of circular definitions, US Civil War references, and quotes along the lines of "democracy is two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner".

I'm too much of a pragmatist, and prefer to stick to the "can they make me do something I don't want to do?" test. Legitimacy is somewhat a matter of opinion.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[IconBasser]

hey, whaddaya know, my old thread is back!

nice sheep, by the way.

 

[IconBasser]

Rereading this thread had to be one of the more frustrating things I've done in the last few days. And the poll.....dear god, the poll. It's just a quick-at-a-glance testament to a lack of understanding.

Mike

calm down mike, just because some folks have a dissenting opinion from your own, ya don't have to call them all ignorant.

 

[GregC]

And the poll.....dear god, the poll. It's just a quick-at-a-glance testament to a lack of understanding.

Mike

I agree wholeheartedly. "Carrots" should have run away with it.

This stuff here sums it up for me.

 

[mike_v_s]

calm down mike, just because some folks have a dissenting opinion from your own, ya don't have to call them all ignorant.

I posted this on page 2:

Let's look at another example. Maybe this one is easier for everyone. Hopefully the parallel is obvious and the conclusions can be drawn without the virtual connect the dot game. Food, water and air. Which is the most important to you?

A similar (perhaps too advanced for some) point was made by hbarcat about combustion.

In conclusion, a person can have a "dissenting opinion" about a math equation...but...well, you get the idea.

Mike

 

[IconBasser]

nobody [well, me at least] was suggesting that we would take one without the other too, I was merely inquiring which people liked the most. Which one gave you warm fuzzies, if you will. It's an entirely pointless question, I know, but hey! This is off-topic!

Kinda Like taxes. Do I like em? No. Would I prefer them to be gone forever? HELL NO! America couldn't function without them.