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Which is most important to you? Freedom, Equality, or Order?

Which is most important to you?

  • Freedom

    Votes: 71 60.7%

  • Social Order

    Votes: 13 11.1%

  • Equality

    Votes: 18 15.4%

  • Carrots

    Votes: 15 12.8%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
#145
Deluge Of Sound said:
You not a fan of freedom, Mike?

What are you, one of them... socialists?
:hiding:
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Well, you know me. I force the kids to wear black shirts on the weekend.

hbarcat said:
I agree wholeheartedly. "Carrots" should have run away with it.
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True, but I've never seen a bald eagle carrying a banner with "Carrots" printed on it, so there was no chance of that happening.

Mike
 
#147
From my (admittedly somewhat individualist) viewpoint, the interesting thing about the three choices is that they're not all of the same category - freedom and equality are ends, social order is a means to one or both of those ends.
 
#149
I definitely don't want equality - communism is an abject failure, if I voted for social order (fascism), I would want it to apply to everyone but me, so I'm going with freedom, but in my own style of anarchy: I don't need government ... but you do.

By the way, I hope everyone realizes that none of these systems could ever work in their pure form.
 
#151
Munjibunga said:
I definitely don't want equality - communism is an abject failure, if I voted for social order (fascism), I would want it to apply to everyone but me, so I'm going with freedom, but in my own style of anarchy: I don't need government ... but you do.

By the way, I hope everyone realizes that none of these systems could ever work in their pure form.
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Well, there it is.

amadeus8.jpg
 
#152
Ziltoid said:
None would work "just like that" or on their "pure form as the guy up me said"

So, figuring the poll choices were crap and could never work, I picked carrots.
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A wise person. I would like to clarify that I believe we all should be equal under the law, but if you follow the philosophy of, "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs," I want nothing to do with it. It was the downfall of the Soviet Union because it removes the incentive to excel, and productivity plummets. When I was in Russia years ago, I asked our guide why we never saw anyone working after 11 a.m., he said, "The government pretends to pay us, and we pretend to work."
 
#154
funkalicious101 said:
You actually heard that line? I've seen it written on just about everything criticizing the Soviet Union but never heard it out loud. Then again I havent talked to too many commies.

In Nepal everyone seemed to have a different opinion.
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I saw that line quoted during an interview with a Soviet factory worker in a PBS documentary on economics. It was said by the worker to be a commonly told joke. I imagine it to be something like the line "Working hard or hardly working?" is here. Everybody knows it, nobody thinks it's funny but you still hear it all the time.
 
#155
hbarcat said:
I saw that line quoted during an interview with a Soviet factory worker in a PBS documentary on economics. It was said by the worker to be a commonly told joke. I imagine it to be something like the line "Working hard or hardly working?" is here. Everybody knows it, nobody thinks it's funny but you still hear it all the time.
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Ivan did work his/her ass off during the "Great Patriotic War". I gotta hand that to 'em. Very impressive. Outside'a that.....FAIL.
 
#158
hbarcat said:
I saw that line quoted during an interview with a Soviet factory worker in a PBS documentary on economics. It was said by the worker to be a commonly told joke. I imagine it to be something like the line "Working hard or hardly working?" is here. Everybody knows it, nobody thinks it's funny but you still hear it all the time.
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It's a little OT, but I have a good friend in The Ukraine (FSU State)

They have a fairly new Constitution. It is similar to ours, but excludes women in a few ways. Besides the fact that she has a degree and only makes $165 a month.....they are not much different than us.

Rock music was banned before the fall of the FSU. Her Father was almost kicked outta college for playing Beatles tunes on his guitar.

It was amazing to both of us how stupid the stereotypes were that we both were fed about each other.
Freedom is very important to her & everyone she knows.
They now have their freedom of all the things they were deprived of in the past, but equality and order???...well it needs some work.

I guess I'm sayin' that it's impossible for me to separate these important concepts. It's more a matter of how you want them to work together.

I don't know if anyone finds this interesting or relevant, but I do. FWIW

Cheers, Dave
 
#159
IconBasser said:
However, if too much emphasis is placed on order, and you begin to consider order as a higher priority than freedom, what happens when an authority figure begins abusing people? Better yet, what if all authority figures begin abusing people? You're stuck. There is nothing you can do. You are entirely vulnerable to the whims of those who are now superior to you.
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(Based on my new reading of Hobbes)

I put it to you that the authority figures rarely have the capability to abuse you as badly as the horde they protect you from. For example, would you rather be living in a totalitarian state, like North Korea, or in a failed state, like Somalia?

While Hobbes clearly did not imagine a government bent on wiping out it's own population (and with such efficiency), i would agree with him - social order is the lesser evil.
 
#160
There's a "sweet spot" where a certain limited amount of social order gives the maximum freedom. For example, if I exercise 2 seconds of my freedom to pull a trigger, I can take away 40 years of freedom from another person - so the total amount of freedom in society as a whole goes down. The degree of social order necessary to stop that is obviously a good thing. More than that is an evil - the difficulty is working out exactly where the line lies.

(Side note - it appears that many folks are confusing "anarchy" with "chaos" - they're not the same thing. If your neighbour points a gun at your head and tells you what to do, it isn't anarchy any more).
 

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