Double Bass Which NS designs electric upright

[Zbysek]

I tried playing the bass with a bow a few times and found it was not to my liking. I ordered the bass with the strings that were made for the bass and never tried it with orchestral strings. If bowing was needed I used an upright.
But when it comes to arco, I don't think it's close enough to even consider. Make room for the DB.

I happen to differ on this issue. IMHO, arco sounds good (switch in arco position)..definitelly useable for pop/rock etc.. If it does not sound perfect, I blame it on my insufficient bowing technique..

The issue is that there is a signifficant drop in volume between arco and pizzicato (arco is louder). I use two channels preamp to deal with that.

One trick that may have helped a bit is raising the string height.

Yes. Quite a bit.

Whether the sound is close enough to get the job done is entirely subjective.

It is, indeed. BTW, let's forget that all acoustic uprights do not sound the same....especially amplified uprights might have longer sustain ... depending on the strings, pick-up and amps used.

My position is the bass had a very unique an interesting voice

It has.. Actually, I have been playing it for several years with great results using the pizzicato position with no ambition to make it sound DBish...

Only recently I started using the arco position trying to emulate acoustic upright.

Acoustic sound is not my ultimate goal. It's rather an interesting excercise - how close is it possible to get. I am happy to find myself somewhere in the middle at the end of the excercise...

I would not consider it for any situation that I felt absolutely needed an authentic string bass sound.

I wouldn't consider any electric instrument for the situation when authentic string bass is ABSOLUTELY NEEDED. But for the other situations some find NSD EUB close enough...

I have played bass guitar in big bands and jazz combos for decades so I am not much a purist when it comes to pizz, but there are definitely arrangements where I prefer to play and actual string bass if logistics allow.

That's the point: if logistics allow. Sometimes logistics don't allow. Then EUB might prove usefull...

I don't have much experience playing other EUBs. When I heard clips of some of the hollow body ones, I realised that they are closer to acoustic sound than NS Design. But when I look at them, I am thinking that the logistics of travelling with (some of) them might be closer to travelling with a real upright...

 

[Zbysek]

But with that said, it sounds and feels like an electric instrument.

IMHO, there are four aspects which make NS Design EUB sound as electric instrument:

1. switch in pizzicato position - easy to deal with it by switching to arco position
2. strong fundamental - easy to deal with it by cutting the fundamental with high pass filter
3. long decay/sustain - more difficult to deal with - raising strings height, orchestral strings, mutes...
4. missing attack - the most difficult to deal with - some IRs might help?

 

[Zbysek]

I've just realised that OP's question was "Which of the NS design's EUBs sound most acoustic?"

I made a proposition that piezo equipped ones sound more acoustic (NXT, CRT, NXTa, ...)

is anybody of the view that CR or EU sound more acoustic?

 

[CryingBass]

I have a CRM5. For-sure, to these old ears, the active pickups make it sound a lot less "acoustic" - but that's to me. I do find myself blending-in the active pups almost all the time - and I think that those of us who dug Eberhard Weber stuff still like that sound. But piezo-only with the right high-impeadance (?) preamp and they can sound very good in terms of an "acoustic" sound. .002 cents worth!

 

[Wasnex]

I happen to differ on this issue. IMHO, arco sounds good (switch in arco position)..definitelly useable for pop/rock etc.. If it does not sound perfect, I blame it on my insufficient bowing technique..

The issue is that there is a signifficant drop in volume between arco and pizzicato (arco is louder). I use two channels preamp to deal with that.



Yes. Quite a bit.



It is, indeed. BTW, let's forget that all acoustic uprights do not sound the same....especially amplified uprights might have longer sustain ... depending on the strings, pick-up and amps used.



It has.. Actually, I have been playing it for several years with great results using the pizzicato position with no ambition to make it sound DBish...

Only recently I started using the arco position trying to emulate acoustic upright.

Acoustic sound is not my ultimate goal. It's rather an interesting excercise - how close is it possible to get. I am happy to find myself somewhere in the middle at the end of the excercise...



I wouldn't consider any electric instrument for the situation when authentic string bass is ABSOLUTELY NEEDED. But for the other situations some find NSD EUB close enough...



That's the point: if logistics allow. Sometimes logistics don't allow. Then EUB might prove usefull...

I don't have much experience playing other EUBs. When I heard clips of some of the hollow body ones, I realised that they are closer to acoustic sound than NS Design. But when I look at them, I am thinking that the logistics of travelling with (some of) them might be closer to travelling with a real upright...

When I first turned pro, I amplified my string bass when I was playing jazz and went acoustic when I was playing classical technique. Within a year or, so my conductor asked me to try amplifying the string bass with classical technique. I played in a concert band so I was generally the only string player.

My goal was MBOL of course, in other words I was trying to get the most authentic acoustic sound I could. Although my string bass was amplified, I eventually learned how to make it sound pretty much like an acoustic instrument should. IMHO this was not possible with the NS Design, despite all the experiments I tried. Instead I came to the conclusion that the best approach was to accept the NS Design's unique voice rather than fighting to make it something it was not.

I thought the NS Design's unique pizz voice was desirable and useful. I didn't think it was perfect for all styles but given I have played these styles on bass guitar for years, I was fairly open minded and less critical.

I thought the NS Design's unique arco voice was atrocious and unusable. But that is my narrow minded subjective view. To be honest, I did not put too much effort into exploring the instrument's arco capabilities as the sound was not even close IMHO. The first thing I would have needed to do was change the strings as the original strings were very difficult to bow. Part of the dilemma is this would have changed the instruments pizz voicing and response, which I did not want to do. Also I had no real reason to explore this side of the instrument.

If you think the Arco sound is usable and have musicians who are willing to allow you to explore it .

No doubt the NS Design is an awesome and useful instrument. But I think it's important to be candid with people on how authentic it is in mimicking a string bass. I would not want to get someone super excited and believing the NS Design does a good job emulating an acoustic string bass. IMHO, if you buy an NS Design and expect it to sound and feel like an acoustic instrument you will be extremely disappointing. That does not discount the NS Design's utility as a substitute, but you could also have someone play bass parts on a synthesizer. In all honestly the right synthesizer patch would probably sound more authentic.

The only EUB I have played for any significant time was an old Clevinger. IMHO the NS Design is far superior in every way, but the Clevinger sounded more like an string bass. I wouldn't say it was very close, but definitely closer. The Clevinger had more thump and less sustain.

 

[PaulCannon]

I thought the NS Design's unique arco voice was atrocious and unusable. But that is my narrow minded subjective view. To be honest, I did not put too much effort into exploring the instrument's arco capabilities as the sound was not even close IMHO. The first thing I would have needed to do was change the strings as the original strings were very difficult to bow.

If the settings are dialed in appropriately, the arco sound can be pleasant. The stock strings are basically useless for arco, and clearly oriented toward pizzicato sustain. I have mine strung up with light spirocores and the bridge set a little higher. The pizz sustain is still excellent, although the relative stiffness compared to the stock strings might make a long pizzicato set more tiring.

I almost never use the instrument arco without some kind of effect pedal engaged. For my purposes, special/weird effects with a bow are the most interesting thing to explore.

 

[Zbysek]

To be honest, I did not put too much effort into exploring the instrument's arco capabilities as the sound was not even close IMHO. The first thing I would have needed to do was change the strings as the original strings were very difficult to bow. Part of the dilemma is this would have changed the instruments pizz voicing and response, which I did not want to do. Also I had no real reason to explore this side of the instrument.

Understandable. Many people say that stock strings are not well suited for arco.

If you think the Arco sound is usable and have musicians who are willing to allow you to explore it .

My bandmates love when I play arco. The are rock musicians though.

But I think it's important to be candid with people on how authentic it is in mimicking a string bass. I would not want to get someone super excited and believing the NS Design does a good job emulating an acoustic string bass.

I know. But let's not forget that the OP already made up his mind. He came to ask "which NS Design model".

IMHO, if you buy an NS Design and expect it to sound and feel like an acoustic instrument you will be extremely disappointing.

Some might be. I wasn't.

 

[Wasnex]

Thinking of diving in to the electric upright world.
In the NS design line of EUB's, (they're priced pretty good, especially used ones)
Which sounds the most acoustic? The videos I see sound like they all have too much treble dialed in. I dont know if that can be EQ'd out or thats the way they all sound.
Help?

The EU series is pricey, even on the used market.

It has individual magnetic pickups for each string and two sets of piezo pickups. One set of piezos is oriented to catch horizontal string vibration and one is oriented to catch vertical string vibration. The theory is one is good for pizz and one is good for arco. There is a toggle switch so you can select between the two piezos.

The bass is active and has a 19V preamp. If you use proprietary NS Designs strings you can easily change the batteries. If you put upright strings on the bass, you have to release one end of the strings to get to the battery compartment. The preamp controls include global volume, bass, and treble, and also a blend control that balances the levels between the magnetic pickups and the piezos.

The EQ on my bass had a good range of cut and boost, so it was possible to roll of a significant amount of high end if desired. I found it more desirable to roll of the low end.

 

[Wasnex]

I haven't really stayed on top of what EUBs have come out of over the years. Supposedly the high end Yamaha Silent bass is about as good as it gets for emulating an acoustic string bass. I tried one at Musik Messe a long time ago and remember it sounding and feeling a lot more authentic than any other EUB I have tried, including the Eminence. This was before I had the band buy my NS Design for me.

A big factor in my choice to buy the NS design is I wanted to 6-string and I really wasn't all the concerned about having an authentic string bass experience. In fact I was looking for more of a fretless BG tone. Although it may seem odd, I have always found it easy to switch between BG and DG, but for some reason I have never been able to develop much skill on a fretless BG. I had no problems adapting to the NS Design, other than it's unique concave kneck forced me to use and develop different muscles in my left hand. The NSD website said this neck design was supposed to make it easier to play the instrument, but I always found playing multiple long sets exclusively on the NS Design to be very taxing.

Here are a couple of videos, if you are curious...and I am sure you can find more:

 

[Jon Moody]

The bass is active and has a 19V preamp. If you use proprietary NS Designs strings you can easily change the batteries. If you put upright strings on the bass, you have to release one end of the strings to get to the battery compartment.

That must just be an EU issue. My CR series NS has the battery compartment in a spot where you can easily access it, upright strings or the NS ones.

The preamp controls include global volume, bass, and treble, and also a blend control that balances the levels between the magnetic pickups and the piezos.

The added blend control between the two piezos is what sold me on the CR. I can dial in a good blend between arco and pizz (and a lot of times I prefer the arco setting for pizz, because of the attack), and then blend in the magnet pickups to taste.

 

[Wasnex]

That must just be an EU issue. My CR series NS has the battery compartment in a spot where you can easily access it, upright strings or the NS ones.

Per the CR Series Manual:

STRING REPLACEMENT The bridge is held in place by the strings, so it is best to change one string at a time. For “electric double bass standard” strings, such as the NS610 strings which come with the CR upright bass, begin by threading the string through the hole in the bottom of the body, then over the bridge, and wrap around the tuner in the conventional manner. For conventional double bass strings, secure the ball end in the slot in the back plate. Thread the string through the hole in the bottom of the body, then over the bridge, and wrap around the tuner in the conventional manner.​

So maybe you just got lucky and found a set of upright strings that worked without having to cage in the battery compartment.

Here is an image of the a CR4 battery compartment. From what I remember the battery compartment is in the same location on the US and EU series
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When NSD strings are used they are installed just like on the CR series.

When upright strings are used, they were pulled over and around the black panel. The balls go in the slots in the back. My organization actually bought a 5-string with upright bass strings at the same time they bought my 6-string, and it was a huge pain to change the battery.

The image below is an EU Series. There is an image of the back of the CR series in the attached manual. It looks pretty similar to the EU series and also has slots in the back panel to secure the strings.

Note how the strings go through the front part of the body. Perhaps a bit more slack is taken up on the CR. CR Series on the left, EU Series on the right.

​

 

[Jon Moody]

So maybe you just got lucky and found a set of upright strings that worked without having to cage in the battery compartment.

They changed the design and relocated the battery compartment.

I'll get a picture posted , but the back panel of my CR-5M looks like the EU series that you've shown, except the top part of it has two thumbscrews that hold the cover for the battery compartment in place.

Changing batteries is not an issue anymore.

 

[Wasnex]

They changed the design and relocated the battery compartment.

I'll get a picture posted , but the back panel of my CR-5M looks like the EU series that you've shown, except the top part of it has two thumbscrews that hold the cover for the battery compartment in place.

Changing batteries is not an issue anymore.

Very cool. This issue is one of the reason I was unwilling to explore different string options with the bass.

 

[Jon Moody]

Here’s the back of my CR. The top part is now where the batteries are located.

 

[Wasnex]

Here’s the back of my CR. The top part is now where the batteries are located.

That's a huge improvement IMHO .

 

[CryingBass]

Here’s the back of my CR. The top part is now where the batteries are located.

View attachment 3571725

My CR5M has the same back, and I bought it like 5+ years ago. Guess I got lucky!

 

[Wasnex]

My CR5M has the same back, and I bought it like 5+ years ago. Guess I got lucky!

If you look at the CR Series manual I attached to post #31 it shows the updated back panel. In contrast, the EU manual and still says the battery box is located on the bottom of the base. No idea if this is accurate.

 

[Jon Moody]

My CR5M has the same back, and I bought it like 5+ years ago. Guess I got lucky!

No luck involved. It was a production change from a long time ago.

 

[danielchav]

None of them will sound particularly acoustic. I actually appreciate the NS line more because they're not trying to make a fake acoustic instrument; they're making proper electric ones.

I have an NXT and a CRM. The CR eq is highly adjustable. You can really pump up the bass if that's what you're into. A quality amp will also help tremendously.

Edit: from the NS Design website, quoting founder Ned Steinberger: "Bowed electric instruments have been made since the mid-thirties. Unfortunately, most of these instruments are the victims of the misplaced idea that an electric instrument should sound exactly like its acoustic predecessor. I want to take it a step further, I want to see what these instruments can do when they are set free."

I have an NXT and certainly agree with your assessment Paul. While it can/could sound kind of similar, I feel that it is a different instrument and you'd better explore its own sound and capabilities.
You who have both instruments, do you feel the CRM justifies its steep price?

 

[rknea]

I'm just back from playing the WAV4, NXT4, and CR4 at my local music store. These are all out of the box, no setup and the standard strings. The WAV4 sounded like a cheap EB now matter how I changed the the settings on it and my AI Ten2 amp. The NXT4 sounded much better, more "resonant" and just felt better in my hands than the WAV4. The CR4...WOW! If you can afford the $2500 or so price tag, is amazing. I was able to quickly dial in a UB sound that was very pleasing to my ears. If I had the $$, IMHO the CR4 would be the best to go with.