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Who can make me a non standard bridge plate?

#27
don21480 said:
Yes - I am setting at 12th fretted.

I'm not convinced about the witness points (had a long discussion with 2 local luthiers who both denounced it and cited some convincing reasoning as to why it was not a valid part of any setup procedure) Being a skeptic I did give it a try based on the thread here on talkbass but in this situation it did not help. Maybe Dan Erlewine can convince me in a video one day :D

I'll try the neck bolt thing

thanks for the suggestions!
Click to expand...

12th fretted vs open string or 12th harmonic?

I'd like to hear that argument (re: witness points).

Stringing, Tuning, Intonation and Witnesses

Riis
 
#28
MattZilla said:
i hav nevr evr herd anythin lik this evr befor.
Click to expand...
I have done it for three barrel esquires when the intonation is off, you can flip the nut and file the nut slot toward the tuners, in the usual manner. When flipped back around the high point is at the other side of the string slot. I do it on guitars that have like wrap-around bridges, Gibson LP juniors, or esquires, telecasters, three barrel types. Obviously it makes the string length a bit longer if you can't back the bridge out any longer. And your right! it would be in the wrong direction for the purpose of the too short bridge plate. DA!
 
#29
sugarsand said:
I have done it for three barrel esquires when the intonation is off, you can flip the nut and file the nut slot toward the tuners, in the usual manner. When flipped back around the high point is at the other side of the string slot. I do it on guitars that have like wrap-around bridges, Gibson LP juniors, or esquires, telecasters, three barrel types. Obviously it makes the string length a bit longer if you can't back the bridge out any longer. And your right! it would be in the wrong direction for the purpose of the too short bridge plate. DA!
Click to expand...
What about intonation? Doing this would effectively make the distance from the first fret to the nut quite a bit larger, but the rest of the fret relationships would stay the same. I don't know what that would sound like, but it sure wouldn't be functional in the usual way. :D
 
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#30
sugarsand said:
I have done it for three barrel esquires when the intonation is off, you can flip the nut and file the nut slot toward the tuners, in the usual manner. When flipped back around the high point is at the other side of the string slot. I do it on guitars that have like wrap-around bridges, Gibson LP juniors, or esquires, telecasters, three barrel types. Obviously it makes the string length a bit longer if you can't back the bridge out any longer. And your right! it would be in the wrong direction for the purpose of the too short bridge plate. DA!
Click to expand...
um, @Bruce Johnson any thoughts on this?
 
#31
sugarsand said:
I have done it for three barrel esquires when the intonation is off, you can flip the nut and file the nut slot toward the tuners, in the usual manner. When flipped back around the high point is at the other side of the string slot. I do it on guitars that have like wrap-around bridges, Gibson LP juniors, or esquires, telecasters, three barrel types. Obviously it makes the string length a bit longer if you can't back the bridge out any longer. And your right! it would be in the wrong direction for the purpose of the too short bridge plate. DA!
Click to expand...
MattZilla said:
um, @Bruce Johnson any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

I was kind of avoiding commenting. It's what Beej says. Moving the fulcrum point (the high spot) of the nut back away from the edge of the fingerboard will effectively put all of the frets out of position. Depending on where the saddle ends up, the notes will either all be sharp, or be progressively sharpest at the 1st and getting closer to right at the 12th. You can't move the nut in relation to the frets.
 
#33
wow lots of info here!

While a scrap piece of metal with double side tape would remedy the problem I want a more permanent and cosmetically attractive solution - its a great looking bass so I don't mind spending a few extra $$ to make it look right too

Not gonna mess with the nut but its an interesting thought that will no doubt provoke some discussion :>)

12th fret vs open string

The witness point thing - i think the term wasn't the problem, the setting instructions were what they were not recommending because of the possibility of kinking the string.

I found a string thru bridge at Allparts that appears to have a long enough bridge plate to solve this - part number BB-3575-010. Waiting for some measurements from the middle of screw hole to end of bridge plate to confirm - fingers crossed!

thanks
 
#34
I could swear I read about 70's fender bridges being in the wrong location, and needing to be extended on the G string, but a quick google search appears to show they just used a longer screw, and it still fit on the plate. Good luck looking.
 
#35
Bruce Johnson said:
I was kind of avoiding commenting. It's what Beej says. Moving the fulcrum point (the high spot) of the nut back away from the edge of the fingerboard will effectively put all of the frets out of position. Depending on where the saddle ends up, the notes will either all be sharp, or be progressively sharpest at the 1st and getting closer to right at the 12th. You can't move the nut in relation to the frets.
Click to expand...

Have you ever Googled "compensated nut?" Try it. I am talking about doing it with a file instead of buying one.
 
#36
Sugarsand, please don't insult me like that. Yes, I have made and installed many, many compensated nuts. I even used to design and machine them for some clients. I know exactly what they are and how they work and what they are intended to do.

Your suggestion of moving the fulcrum point of the nut back from the zero line some substantial amount will mess up the math relationship of the positions of all the frets. You won't be able to correct for it with special tuning. Most or all of the notes of the scale will be off.
 
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#37
Bruce Johnson said:
Sugarsand, please don't insult me like that. Yes, I have made and installed many, many compensated nuts. I even used to design and machine them for some clients. I know exactly what they are and how they work and what they are intended to do.

Your suggestion of moving the fulcrum point of the nut back from the zero line some substantial amount will mess up the math relationship of the positions of all the frets. You won't be able to correct for it with special tuning. Most or all of the notes of the scale will be off.
Click to expand...

You are right, yes, how could you not be. The math of the fretboard! But the nut and the bridge, by origin the remains of an animal... are just bone and guts pulled over a barrel. More of magic and voodoo than math. I am completely wrong to think about making up an 1/8" on the nut, on a fretted bass with the bridge drilled in the wrong place. I never tried to do such a thing obviously. But to say the nut fulcrum doesn't ever change, this is immutable knowledge well ok, but it does/can change. I think that's what the example of a compensated nut, by degree, demonstrates. You're right. I am wrong fine, no insult intended.
 
#38
Just so you understand, on a compensated nut, the fulcrum point is moved a small amount (0.015" to 0.030" in most setups). But then the open tuning of the string is changed too, making it a tiny bit flatter. It's complicated, but the net result is that it lines up the frequencies of the notes on the frets slightly more accurately than the standard model. The Buzz Feiten system is the most well known of these systems, but a few others have done similar things. They all require both the compensated nut and a special slight retuning of the strings.
 

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