Who doesn’t mind neck dive?

[devnulljp]

I've never experienced neck dive. And I have A Thunderbird and an SG, and used to have an EB-0 bass.
Maybe some people are using crappy straps?

 

[J Wilson]

WHY would I play a bass I have to hold up?

Put me in the 'I DO Mind' category.

 

[smeet]

I hate it. But for years I’ve been using 4” wide leather straps with suede on the inner surface. It sticks to my shoulder so well, I don’t even know if any of my basses have neck dive.

 

[Goatrope]

Neck dive is objectively awful from an ergonomic and technique standpoint.

Neck dive is subjectively awful from an ergonomic and technique standpoint.

Like dead spots, we argue over degrees of perceived existence, as if any one example were everyone’s reality.

Fun to read, though.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Supporting the weight of the neck adds forearm/wrist muscle tension.
No matter how slight
So does pushing down with the plucking arm.

In a playing position,wiggle your fretting hand fingers without anything.
Now wiggle them while holding a 5 lb dumbbell.
That's the difference.

Fretting a bass should be as effortless as possible.
You really should "float"while fretting.

 

[Jogobass]

My latest bass, the Ibanez GWB205 has terrible neck dive, because they used a light body and titanium rods in the neck for strength. However, due to the position of the strap knobs it hangs in the right position when using a strap. I never play it on my leg without a strap because I need my bass a little higher. So it's a non-issue for me.

 

[jazzyvee]

Neck-dive is way low down on my list. But I also have come to appreciate each instrument for what it is - I have several instruments that are far from perfect, but they offer something special.

I stopped playing for about five years - when I started again, I read a story of a guy with a beautiful Rickenbacker who was standing around after a show with it just hanging on the strap - the strap came off and it hit the ground. Made me conscious of the possibility, and I basically never let go of the neck if I can help it - somehow I trained myself. Thinking about it now, that bass must not have had much neck-dive for him to just let go!
.

I would think a lot would depend too on how much you play and in what circumstances.

Now I have to play my current #1 and think about it. Or maybe I shouldn't if it doesn't bother me!

Years ago, back in the 90's when i was a guitarist, at soundcheck one of the bass players on a multi band gig i was on, had the bass strap just come apart and the bass dropped and broke the headstock completely off. It split on the scarf joint. Fortunately he was able to borrow another bass. But it was one of the plastic parts of his strap that broke. Since them i don't use or but any straps with plastic parts.

I have a couple of short scale basses, and a guitar that have neck dive. Not ideal to have but they are otherwise dream basses and i have found ways to minimise it but physics is physics. Let go the neck and down it goes.

 

[Coot]

Well.. I was younger and didn't really think this out . I have a 1973 Ricky 4001. Love the sound , love the neck . But the sharp edges on the body were always cutting into my forearms and body. I saw a pic of Macca with a sanded edged Rick and with great care ( it looks awesome) I sanded the sharp edges down. The result was a neck diver due to the unbalanced amount of wood between body and neck. I got some weights and tucked them in behind the guitar strap. It doesn't dive now but it isn't on a natural uptilt like it was originally . It was hard to play on the dive after all that work. It was my working bass not a case queen and I needed to use it constantly. To me..that sharp edge had to be removed . but ..yeah.. I often regret doing it.

 

[Frank77]

To each their own.

I do mind neck dive, I experienced it with a standard 34" scale SG-style bodied bass - it's definitely not a myth. That thing would go for the floor the instant you let go.

My 0.02$: There are way too many options available out there to settle for a dysfunctional design.

 

[robassable]

Been playing for 50 years. Neck dive and heavy basses never bothered me much, until about 10 years ago when I got pronounced shoulder and back pain on my left side. At that point I went over to lighter basses, no more than 8 pounds that don’t or barely dive. Makes me wish I would have done it decades ago as it could have saved my shoulder.

 

[Lux]

I'm using a special strap which allows me to adjust the position of the bass, so neck dive is no more a problem:

Sling Strap Guitar Strap

 

[chris_b]

Because the scale is pretty standard and body weight is hard to predict in large scale production. I don’t think anyone is aiming for a divey guitar. But if the slab isn’t heavy enough to counter the neck I don’t know how a factory could mitigate it altogether. They could procure denser wood but some folks would not care for the extra weight.

The real solutions are headless or a hootenanny strap.

I understand the logistics.

A company orders 10000 body blanks with the intention of using every one. They won't spend money weighing the blanks. I get that. Some basses will balance and be a nice weight, some will be boat anchors and some will neck dive.

IMO the neck dive problem is a fault in the design. The top horn isn't long enough. The company expects its customers to accept the poor design.

PS My guess is that it is easy to build basses that balance and don't have excessive weight, but that introduces processes into the manufacture and requires much tighter specs on materials, which increases costs. So they cut the costs and hope no one minds the poorly designed products.

 

[msb]

Most of the time my right hand rests on the bass body and holds the bass in place … but if I was to lift both hands above my head … the bass would dive.
Good thing I rarely lift both hands above my head on the gig.The slight dive really doesn’t bother me at all.

 

[Ostie]

The OPs original question was “Who doesn’t mind neck dive?” But half of the posts are rehashing all the reasons why neck dive is so terrible.

 

[godofthunder59]

Never

bothered me in the least. I've been playing Thunderbirds since '76, frankly I don't even notice it. Why do we never talk about body dive? A Les Paul Triumph or Peavey T40 will slip right off your lap if your not careful.

 

[scott sinner]

I use to care. But there was this point where I was playing in three bands and upright in an orchestra, just playing so much I was getting pain in my arms and wrists. Worried it was carpal tunnel (sp?) I went to the doctor. But it was just regular old muscle strain, like an athlete would get. I was taught some stretches and also the doctor taught me to not have my wrist at too sharp an angle.

so..I switched to playing electric bass at near a 45 degree angle. That moves the bass’s center of gravity relative to the strap-neck fulcrum and fixes neck dive.

 

[ctmullins]

By the way, a sticky strap doesn’t fix neck dive. It masks the symptom, but doesn’t actually alter the weight distribution. I am always baffled when people claim it does. I tried it once or twice. My neck-divey bass still neck-dove, but now it took my T-shirt down with it. Yuck. No more sticky straps for me!

 

[Five or Six]

I think anything that distracts from playability may be a nuisance. Long scale basses, wood types, and the amount of strings all add to the equation of weight in general even the dreaded "neck dive". I believe the younger you are not much bothers a person or their playing. I do believe the older we get things become more noticeable weather its neck dive, equipment weight, whatever, all may become more noticeable. Big basses made out of heavy wood with especially a pile of strings may be bothersome to older players ie: not necessarily neck dive but weight in general. Does neck dive bother me? Not so much, bass weight alone bothers me.

 

[Killing Floor]

IMO the neck dive problem is a fault in the design

Yes. Everything has a measurable center of mass. Any luthier could easily calculate it from the parts on their bench.

And if you’re looking at it like a product manager in a larger facility you could easily write a program into your process that paired formed necks with formed bodies by weight “matching”. You could do that with half dozen commands in C++ or Matlab or Excel, it’s really not a technical leap because at a scale like Fender’s, every finished product in a catalog line is shaped the same so the only variation is weight of wooden parts.

But the flip side is they don’t have to do that to maintain their sales at the capacity of their factories.

Not picking on Fender.

You could always relocate the strap pins. Or extend the horn. But then it’s not a FSO. Neck dive in a standard Fender shaped instrument is a consequence of the design and a consequence of process. As the largest volume brand they have different challenges than a Fano or Nash.

And I’ve said before, I’ll put up with a few details because I Want to play certain instruments and prefer certain brands because of the history.

And honestly any bass with any amount of neck dive balances perfectly with a hootenanny type strap. I just don’t want that.

 

[E2942]

Maybe some people are using crappy straps?

That's basically what a boutique maker stated when asked about neck dive in their instruments.
If I need a $100+ leather strap with a suede backing to hold up the instrument, it's a poorly designed instrument.

I'd rather use a thin silk strap & condemn the poor designs to Hades from whence they came.