Who here feels like drive slows down their playing?

[TonyP-]

I'm old enought to see how overdrives, fuzzs and distortions have gotten more popular in the last 25 years.

I honestly feel that I'm playing progressivly busy parts that with drive can feel way to blurried and not defined.
It feels sluggish to me.

This is not a knock to this effects, I mean I use slight overdrive on occasion, but not on buys parts.

This is just a discussion...
Cheers

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Yup!

I'm not a fan of drive most of the time. Occasionally it's good, but almost never do I hear drive on a recorded bass part and think "that drive is awesome". The sounds that attract me almost never have drive on them, and I turn it off almost as soon as I turn it on most of the time. But there is that rare occasion where it does fit the bill, and I'll use it there. For example, the band I'm playing with tonight will sometimes throw in Sunshine of Your Love, and I'll kick on the BB Pre and it'll be cool.

 

[Solipsistik]

It can do.

 

[davedamage]

Then you're using the wrong tool for the job.

 

[ahbass2500]

Have observed this.

I have been liking the Genzler 4OTF. LPF/HPF and Clean Blend help tighten things up.

Granted I am far from the authority on overdrive. I do not use it often and when I do it is usually not much breakup.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Then you're using the wrong tool for the job.

Or we just don't like the flavor it imparts. Some people hate onions. Some hate cilantro. Some hate pepper. I happen to like all those, but I dislike drive. It just doesn't taste good to me.

 

[Wasnex]

Makes sense to me.

For me speed and that feeling of being connected with one's sound is encoded in the highs. I haven't really messed with drive very much with bass, but I do have a lot of tube amps; even though I am not really a tube guy with bass. What I notice is when I push a tube amp near the edge that the response seem to slows. The true tube aficionados, love the way this feels, but it can drive me nuts. It can feel like wading through mud while dragging a big rock .

IME most tube amps seem to darken a bit as they are pushed. This goes against common knowledge. Pushing an amp into drive territory generates harmonics, which is claimed to brighten the sound. But that is not how I perceive it with many tube amps.

I generally like sort of a soft response in the frequency range that produces clank. I like a bit of glass and air, which IMHO occurs in frequency range that is higher than clank. With the styles I usually perform, I find it hard to play fast with too much clank. In the mix, glass and air tends to become inaudible due to masking. However, for me the presence of these qualities help me feel connected to my sound. AFAIK the frequencies associated with glass and air are generally filtered out with drive, as they can give the distortion a harsh and fizzy quality.

Styles that use drive on bass tend to benefit from a bit more clank. This is generated by using a pick or striking the strings against the frets. My primary technique is finger-style and I usually play very cleanly to avoid making unintended string and fret noises. When playing a heavier style, I usually use a pick and dial back the highs a bit. This is not something I do regularly so I am not super fast with a pick.

 

[silky smoove]

Then you're using the wrong tool for the job.

Agreed

I experience this with some drives, particularly ones with a rolled off top end, whereas I do not experience it with other drives that do a better job of retaining and in some cases exciting the top end information.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I'm old enought to see how overdrives, fuzzs and distortions have gotten more popular in the last 25 years.

I honestly feel that I'm playing progressivly busy parts that with drive can feel way to blurried and not defined.
It feels sluggish to me.

This is not a knock to this effects, I mean I use slight overdrive on occasion, but not on buys parts.

This is just a discussion...
Cheers

Beer, wine, shots of whatever, not enough practice, and not enough rest do a pretty good job of slowing me down. Drive? Never affected me.

I might suggest that songs with drive seem to have a lot of notes in them and probably played at more note per minutes. Maybe this might be a fatigue issue.

 

[mambo4]

Fast, complicated, plus effects can get muddy easily, and needs a bit of thoughtful planning.
Use an effect that works for the part, or use a part that works with the effect.

 

[2thAche]

Billy Sheehan would dissagree.

 

[MCS4]

Or we just don't like the flavor it imparts. Some people hate onions. Some hate cilantro. Some hate pepper. I happen to like all those, but I dislike drive. It just doesn't taste good to me.

I think you might be misunderstanding their "wrong tool" comment. I interpret it as suggesting more specifically that it is possible you might be using the wrong drive pedals/sources for the type of sound or attack you want.

I personally play "clean" 95% of the time, even when playing hard rock and metal of various types that tend to be among the most drive-friendly styles of music. However, one of the few situations when I do use drive is situations where I am playing a bass break or other bass-led portion of the song where the rest of the band is going to be keying off my rhythm, because I find the right drive pedal can enhance my initial attack and make it pop out more in a band mix, particularly when it comes to parts that are faster or more intricate. But those are specific pedals I am favoring for a specific purpose; if I tried to do the same thing with a wooly muff fuzz or a super vintage-leaning warm overdrive the result would likely be closer to your experience.

 

[jimfist]

Something like the Source Audio Bass Multiwave multi-band distortion pedal is an interesting surgical tool for sculpting distortion. Or even having the ability to split the bass signal into a hi-pass/low-pass dual path, sending the hi-pass to your distortion device, can make a huge difference with clarity and retaining punch. Removing the low end from the distortion path was a game-changer for me.

 

[lomo]

I agree drive/OD usually muddies the beginning and end of the note envelope, making it sound less distinct. I almost always prefer kleeeeen. That said, the treble bite that can come from grit can make notes pop in a dense mix. Robert De Leo on Interstate Love Song is a great example of that......but not my thing at all.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

I'm old enought to see how overdrives, fuzzs and distortions have gotten more popular in the last 25 years.

I honestly feel that I'm playing progressivly busy parts that with drive can feel way to blurried and not defined.
It feels sluggish to me.

This is not a knock to this effects, I mean I use slight overdrive on occasion, but not on buys parts.

This is just a discussion...
Cheers

Geddy Lee.
Chris Squire.

 

[WaldoNova]

Geddy Lee.
Chris Squire.

Cliff.
Geezer.
Timmy.
Justin.

Truth is drive hasn't always been something a lot of bassist purposefully utilized until newer tech made it possible to play loud without distortion.

If you listen to solo'ed bass on a lot of recordings you'll notice more drive than you realize listening to it in the mix.

 

[BassBrass]

Only when trying to sound like sun0))) otherwise I have no speed limits

 

[IronLung1986]

I can see that. Nothing feels more immediate or sounds clearer than clean bass. For me that enables faster playing. Distortion is a reduction. It's very hard in my opinion to distort bass in a way that improves upon the clean sound. Usually there's some mids getting scooped out somewhere and it prompts you to play harder (ie: slower) to compensate. However, there are contexts where perfectly clean, especially solid state clean, is a little awkward. An SVT can be perfectly clean but still sound really tough with some treble dialed in for example. It doesn't need literal distortion to sound kickass. With the solid state amps we mostly use now you can find yourself in situations where your clean tone is a little too polite.

I think the key with getting a good overdrive sound on bass is having as many controls as possible on the pedal. You need all the help you can get because you're doing something that fights against the bass's natural role as a hi-fi instrument. Fuzz, oddly enough, is simpler. A simple Green Russian nano is perfectly self sufficient with 3 knobs. But it's the lighter overdrive sounds that are hard to get. I had to go all the way to the X Ultra, and if even one feature on that pedal were missing it wouldn't work for me. And I would still say that clean is the most comfortable, fluid and fast way for me to play.

 

[Wood and Wire]

I think it depends where / how the drive is introduced :

If the drive is induced by a lot of low frequency energy using up the headroom, the whole signal compresses, and becomes muddied / feels sluggish.

If it's induced in the upper frequencies, it can add sparkle, energy, livliness, and help intelligibility in the mix, without have the whole bass spectrum dominate the mix.

James Jamerson, and JJ Burnell could hardly be more different in their musical approaches, yet both of them write pretty busy lines - and both have very hairy tones.

Jamersons tone relies on that drive for articulation in the mix, whereas Burnell uses it to colour the mix (listen to any of Jamersons isolated bass tracks, or the flurry of bass notes on the intro of "Heroes" by The Stranglers : clear, dynamic, fast and hairy).

 

[Fuzzbass]

If you don't like it you don't like it, nothing wrong with that, but as noted, plenty of rock bassists use distortion. Geddy Lee and Billy Sheehan are "top of the chops" examples.

I personally prefer multiband distortion that leaves lows and low mids clean. This tracks with John Entwistle and Chris Squire, who also had fancy chops.