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Who Hires The Substitute ?
- Thread starter ArtechnikA
- Start date
Well, I haven't gotten involved with one of those "democracy" bands in 40 years or so (and they always end up with a bandleader anyway, it's just that they do it after tons of trouble and strife whereas a real band with a single leader eliminates all that BS from the outset - can you tell where my preferences lie?...) but my experience has been that in the Northeast, with working bands, the guy who can't make it finds the sub; in Texas the bandleader finds the sub. In general - with many exceptions, of course. Frankly I think the bandleader ought to be the one to find the sub. They're supposed to be the leader, which implies they've got a big network of people. I'd just as soon, for sideman pay, not add "must know numerous people on my instrument, who can read, improvise, and sit in at a moment's notice" to my job description.
I think you should offer a sub to BL, if you got a good one, that's professional courtesy. Ultimately, it's the responsibility and privilege of the person who pays the band.
If a sub has not been pre-established, common sense and good citizenship would have both BL and the one to be subbed for, look for a sub. If both sides find one the BL gets to choose the subber.
Your part need not be exhaustive, just review your contacts and see if any are bassists and are available on said date.
I once decided to leave a band and upon giving my notice I also provided the name of an able and willing bassist. Not exactly a sub situation, but you get the point.
Your part need not be exhaustive, just review your contacts and see if any are bassists and are available on said date.
I once decided to leave a band and upon giving my notice I also provided the name of an able and willing bassist. Not exactly a sub situation, but you get the point.
In this case, the parties responsible for booking the show would be responsible for arranging the sub.
Despite this being a “democratic” band, those individuals broke your unspoken arrangement when they chose to book a show when you weren’t available.
If you can help them by finding one, then do so. But this reeks of manipulative behavior on their part. I’d take it as a red flag and or insight into their true commitment to this being “democratic”.
Despite this being a “democratic” band, those individuals broke your unspoken arrangement when they chose to book a show when you weren’t available.
If you can help them by finding one, then do so. But this reeks of manipulative behavior on their part. I’d take it as a red flag and or insight into their true commitment to this being “democratic”.
A lot of people didn't notice that the band doesn't have a bandleader. It's a "voting democracy" and they apparently voted the OP off the island for one show. I think they need to vote on how they're now going to replace him. It's not his problem.
If they decided as a team to boom a show when you weren't available, THEY need to be part of the process of finding a sub. If they get to tell you what to do, your band is several chiefs and you're the only Indian.
If you rank equally with them, give them some push back and force them to get involved. This isn't your fault. You told them you couldn't do the date.
As for your original question, there are no hard and fast rules regarding who hires a sub in every band that is a democracy. The whole point of a democracy is that the whole band decides. Each band will be different based on the personalities involved.
Years ago I would get a sub for my self, not the BL, at
least in my work areas. Nowadays there is so little work
I do not have a sub I can call so I leave it to the BL.
Other than that I tell the BL to blackout me out on the
work calendar.
least in my work areas. Nowadays there is so little work
I do not have a sub I can call so I leave it to the BL.
Other than that I tell the BL to blackout me out on the
work calendar.
In the smaller jazz groups that I play with, the BL books subs. For some bands, I'm the sub.
In the big-band, the members of each section are responsible for their subs, but the BL deals with rhythm section subs.
In the big-band, the members of each section are responsible for their subs, but the BL deals with rhythm section subs.
I have an established sub. If I cannot do a gig he's the first call. He's a very good bassist, plays guitar as well and was one of the primary singers in his own band. I'm sure if I quit they'd offer him the slot in a heartbeat, deservedly so.
My current situation is we don’t have subs. We just don’t book gigs when players aren’t available. (We do have some union horn players we contract, a very short list of guys that know our material and do a good job). The BL posts a potential gig, everyone checks their personnel schedule and reports in with a yeah or nay. The same for the Union guys. Once committed, the rule is, unless you are looking at the wrong side of a lawn, you are expected to be there. This has worked for us for over 50 years now.
I have work in other situations but I think the best way to do this is with an online dedicated band calendar (google calendar works great) with one person responsible for keeping it up to date, preferably the BL, and or the one that actually negotiates the gigs. If there are dates you are not available, contact the one that oversees the calendar and that date is blocked off. If anybody tries to book a gig, the date is blocked off. Period. It’s also a great idea that you follow up with letting the calendar overseer to make sure he actually has updated the calendar with in a day or so to prevent potential issues.
One other point. There are gigs and there are gigs. Giving up a prior commitment to go play at “Joe’s bar and grill for free beer is one thing. A gig where the per member net is north of say $500 a man, and you can’t make it because you’ve committed to going shopping for dog collars for your poodle might not make yourself real popular with your band mates.
Something legitimate, like family obligations, your real job responsibilities pop up and the like, band members should be mature enough to understand if you beg off. And if that was me in this case, instead of saying “I told you months ago I wasn’t going to be available on this date”, I’d busting my hump to find somebody that can fill in so they can make a decent buck.
If I’ve committed to a gig and I’m sick or otherwise indisposed, it’s my responsibility to fill the slot. The replacement had best not embarrass me.
If I was never asked about availability on a specific date and/or BL chooses to book the gig anyway, it’s up to him to fill the slot.
If I was never asked about availability on a specific date and/or BL chooses to book the gig anyway, it’s up to him to fill the slot.
When I cancel a date, the gig is cancelled ;-)
I'd say if the 'band' or BL books a gig while it is known that a member cannot attend, the 'band' or BL will have to find a sub. If I have confirmed a date and cannot make it, I'll find a sub and suggest that to the band.
I'd say if the 'band' or BL books a gig while it is known that a member cannot attend, the 'band' or BL will have to find a sub. If I have confirmed a date and cannot make it, I'll find a sub and suggest that to the band.
My band would get a Wino if they could get him to hold a bass long enough to get through the gig. I think it's very damaging. If they want to look bad that's on them. After the missed gig I hear their regrets but that was their choice. The rest of the band chooses the Sub.
I once joined a band that had been using a standup metal cutout with a bass strapped to it on stage while in between bassists. This was my predecessor...
I choose not to be in a band at this time but theoretically, were I in one: democracy; band leader; or apparent self-appointed plutocracy of gu!+@r!$+$, as you described, if I had a good relationship with the other members, I would reach out to my contacts as a courtesy.
I know three or four guys/gals off the top of my head who could pull off the standard bar band gig without breaking a sweat, but the ultimate responsibility in this given scenario, rests with whomever booked the date, in my judgment.
I know three or four guys/gals off the top of my head who could pull off the standard bar band gig without breaking a sweat, but the ultimate responsibility in this given scenario, rests with whomever booked the date, in my judgment.
Only 3 of us in our group. We book gigs when everyone is available and don't do the "sub" thing. If that works for you that's fine too just not how we do it.
The closest we ever came to cancelling was at the time I found out about surgery that was much needed. One phone call to the venue and the date was changed with no issues.
The closest we ever came to cancelling was at the time I found out about surgery that was much needed. One phone call to the venue and the date was changed with no issues.
