Who prefers mass produced over boutique?

[beggar98]

The Man...meh! All companies are run by men (or women). Just because they're large doesn't mean they're not run by men with jobs and families to feed, too. They could easily go bankrupt if instrument fashions and trends change. We're not talking about big oil here.

True, but we are talking about MBAs and not luthiers. I'm a big fan of the free market, capitalism, blah blah blah, but when Fender is designing the next MIM bass, the bottom line will be a huge consideration. This is true for any mass-produced anything anywhere in the world. Items are built to a price point, and in order to make that price point compromises have to be made. Is it possible that these compromises will come together and make what some people consider to be an amazing bass? Of course, and as technology and QC improve the quality gap between the less expensive basses and their more expensive counterparts will shrink. However, I stand by my belief that if everyone received a gift card good for one bass of their choosing, most people would spend over $1500, with many tipping in at over $3k.

A side note here, where does something like a Custom Shop Fender fit in here? A quick look at the 4 strings for sale on MF shows 3 Fenders priced over $3k, with one custom shop tagged at $5700. Are these boutique or mass-produced? Are these nicer than the Rogues, Deans and Squiers that make up the low end of the price range?

And finally (at least for this post), who are these billionaire oil men you all seem to know and will any of them buy me a Fodera?

 

[beggar98]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Sorry for laughing...I used my student loan to buy a boutique bass!

I used my student loan to buy beer and lap dances...now THAT was way better than any boutique bass!

 

[Hans Gruber]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Sorry for laughing...I used my student loan to buy a boutique bass!

My roommate did the exact same thing and dropped out of Musician's Institute in LA.

 

[Skarekrough]

The divisive part is when people start making judgments of what someone "ought" to value, or judgments what someone else needs.

Ya know....you can use my proper name. I'm still watching the thread!!!!

However, I stand by my belief that if everyone received a gift card good for one bass of their choosing, most people would spend over $1500, with many tipping in at over $3k.

It's an interesting idea.

Given the chance to have ANYTHING for free we tend to go high-end for the sake of getting as much out of it as we can.

But if someone handed me a check for $1500 to spend it on whatever I wanted the odds are that it would go towards other necessities in life rather than a high-end bass.

It's not that I can't see the value in a $1500 bass but more along the lines that I've made do with less than $1500 of bass in the past and given the chance to go on a vacation with my family or front the money for recording, that seems like a better use for it. For my own fulfillment I'm just more likely to get "more" out of it by using it that way.

 

[beggar98]

It's an interesting idea.

Given the chance to have ANYTHING for free we tend to go high-end for the sake of getting as much out of it as we can.

But if someone handed me a check for $1500 to spend it on whatever I wanted the odds are that it would go towards other necessities in life rather than a high-end bass.

It's not that I can't see the value in a $1500 bass but more along the lines that I've made do with less than $1500 of bass in the past and given the chance to go on a vacation with my family or front the money for recording, that seems like a better use for it. For my own fulfillment I'm just more likely to get "more" out of it by using it that way.

This is kinda the point I've been making. I'm not saying that everyone needs a boutique bass, or that cheaper basses are so inferior they will ruin your tone/playing/style. Just that if you only consider the quality of the instrument, most people will agree that boutiques are of a higher quality. I play an old Corvette STD and an SX Jazz Fretless, so I'm not a boutique player/owner. But only because I can't afford to be, and everytime I stroll into Bass Exchange and see the amazing instruments they have on the wall I can easily admit that most of them would be a huge upgrade over what I have.

 

[JimmyM]

True, but we are talking about MBAs and not luthiers. I'm a big fan of the free market, capitalism, blah blah blah, but when Fender is designing the next MIM bass, the bottom line will be a huge consideration. This is true for any mass-produced anything anywhere in the world. Items are built to a price point, and in order to make that price point compromises have to be made. Is it possible that these compromises will come together and make what some people consider to be an amazing bass? Of course, and as technology and QC improve the quality gap between the less expensive basses and their more expensive counterparts will shrink. However, I stand by my belief that if everyone received a gift card good for one bass of their choosing, most people would spend over $1500, with many tipping in at over $3k.

A side note here, where does something like a Custom Shop Fender fit in here? A quick look at the 4 strings for sale on MF shows 3 Fenders priced over $3k, with one custom shop tagged at $5700. Are these boutique or mass-produced? Are these nicer than the Rogues, Deans and Squiers that make up the low end of the price range?

And finally (at least for this post), who are these billionaire oil men you all seem to know and will any of them buy me a Fodera?

Last question first...I don't know them and no they won't.

CS's fit into their own category. No way you can call it boutique because it's a pretty large operation in itself, but they are in essence a boutique version of Fender.

And if I got a gift card for a bass, that's exactly where I'd go for a bass. I like Alleva-Coppolo a lot and could be talked into one of them because the one I played was super light and played like butter, but I like Fender styling better.

 

[spade2you]

I used my student loan to buy beer and lap dances...now THAT was way better than any boutique bass!

I used mine for food and rent. I somehow feel cheated.

 

[Elrend]

Meh, already own my costums, so the Fender hangs all alone in the basement.

The sound is better in the costums anyway.

 

[Valerus]

I wouldn't pay thousands for a single bass. If I ever did, it would be the end-all be-all bass.

But right now I have a Japanese Fender '75 RI Jazz and it's all I've ever wanted. I threw in some Nordstrand NJ4SV's and it sounds killer live!!

I slapped my BadAss II on there and it's so awesome.

It's like...under $1000 and can own anything.

 

[BioDriver]

I see no real point to paying more than $1500 for a bass; Fender MIAs and Stingrays get the job done just fine.

 

[beggar98]

I see no real point to paying more than $1500 for a bass; Fender MIAs and Stingrays get the job done just fine.

Which job would that be?

 

[flipper_gv]

Well, people buying boutique basses is like the guys on here buying 300$ flashlights. Will it really make the difference? I don't, they do and they find the difference important enough to their eyes to be worth to pay 300$ for a flashlight. Same thing happen here, some dudes see a difference that is worthy enough between a MIA fender and a Sad to pay 2000$ more bucks for that difference.

Another sweet comparison would be to compare std. off the shelf Home Depot tools with Mac Tools stuff....

 

[Guest043]

Which job would that be?

certainly not the job that my bass can do..

but hes got a point, that theres really never a time where a good jazz bass wont do you right. but theres room for improvement, it just costs $3000 more.

 

[spade2you]

but hes got a point, that theres really never a time where a good jazz bass wont do you right.

'cept when you need it to be a fretless 6.

 

[GremlinAndy]

Gah NO-ONE actually prefers a sub £1000 to a boutique bass. If you "don't think it's WORTH it" is a different matter. mass produced don't have the extra something, but DO represent great value for the money.

If you asked how many people think a GM car is better than a dragster over a mile the answer would be obvious. The same is true of basses, but the cost may not be worth the expense to some.

 

[bucephylus]

I own both kinds and play them each when I feel so inclined.

Interestingly, there are great mass production instruments and less than great custom built instruments. You have to take them one at a time.

My personal selection is more of an accumulation of what I found to be really good instruments over time. But, you can only play one at a time. So, the only one that matters is the one at the gig. I guess I do find that certain vibes fit different mixes better. That is probably why I ended up with my accumulation.

For a younger player, there is no problem with starting off with a good mass production instrument and stick with it if that's what you find you need. The list of phenomenally successful musicians playing primarily a single mass production instrument is long and distinguished. Please remember that the activity is bass PLAYING. Your playing on a given instrument will so far overpower other peoples sense of your musicianship vs the details of the instrument that the two factors aren't even in the same zone.

IMHO.

 

[GremlinAndy]

For a younger player, there is no problem with starting off with a good mass production instrument and stick with it if that's what you find you need.
IMHO.

You see this is kinda my point...
For someone to whom budget is the factor, mass production is absolutely great. You get a fantastic well honed sound at a reasonably affordable price.
and it can also be true that there are bad boutique basses out there, but we're not really talking about those are we... (?) Surely only a fool would buy a boutique bass untried, and a bigger fool would buy that bass.
You have to be sure that your boutique bass is better than a mass produced bass or well ...what the heck *is* the point. But generally speaking they ARE better than mass produced, and if you get one that isn't then really you messed up and only have yourself to blame (I don't mean *you* personally, but the general term 'all')

addendum Just out of interest, how many people with Fenders would say that their fender is better than a $150 clone? Most, I suspect. And for good reason. They ARE! It's a hard pill to swallow that they are worth *that much* more, but truth is... They probably are. The annoying thing about a thread like this is that it irritates all the people who don't have a boutique bass, and makes them feel thay have a second class instrument. This ISN'T the case. They have a great instrument from a fine pedigree. But if price isn't a factor, a boutique bass, custom made, and chosen for it's fine workmanship and playability, ...well it goes without saying really.

 

[SMASH]

Gah NO-ONE actually prefers a sub £1000 to a boutique bass. If you "don't think it's WORTH it" is a different matter. mass produced don't have the extra something, but DO represent great value for the money.

If you asked how many people think a GM car is better than a dragster over a mile the answer would be obvious. The same is true of basses, but the cost may not be worth the expense to some.

That's hilarious, and typical of the short-sightedness on both sides in these types of threads. What if you need to bring gear to a gig, drive friends around, sit comfortably during a long road trip, or get groceries - GM or dragster?

I have a Skyline DJ5 which cost about $1000 new, and I have a totally hand-made fancy German "master luthier" made 5-string which was around $5k when new but I bought it used for much less though I still paid more than the Skyline. I like them both the same - they're both excellent. If I had to have only one, it'd probably be the Skyline.

Much of what made the German bass cost more has *nothing* to do with function, tone, or even playing faster - to name a few : shipping, currency exchange, big heavy bridge, fancy wood, hand crafting (arguably less precise than CNC), "master luthier" wages and time spent discussing the build, fancy preamp, fancy paint job, inability by the luthier to enjoy economies of scale and pass on the savings, etc.).

Fret work? A PLEK can be had for under $150 now and it's only going to get cheaper. New Skylines come PLEK'd.

Surely only a fool would buy a boutique bass untried, and a bigger fool would buy that bass.

That's basically everyone that orders up a custom by putting together a laundry list of woods and parts, sometimes based on what random people online vote on, isn't it?

Many write that it's the best bass ever and that they'll never sell it, the same hour it's delivered, then 1-3 months later it's for sale and someone buys it untried. It ain't foolish to get great deals that way. It ain't even foolish to get one built that way, or pay more for unique features/specs you can make use of, though IMO it's a bit naive to be convinced it'll luckily be "the one" especially if the person is a chronic gear flipper.

 

[cassanova]

My theory on mass produced vs boutique is if it sounds good and plays good it is good.

I'll put my Lakland 55-02 which isn't exactly a boutique bass, up against a boutique bass any day of the week and it'll keep up just fine as far as tone goes.

Originally Posted by GremlinAndy
Surely only a fool would buy a boutique bass untried, and a bigger fool would buy that bass.

I wouldn't call Carvin boutique, however they do advertise like their basses are, but most people buy them without trying them out first. I fall under the bigger fool catagory of your statement because I wound up hating the tone with extreme prejudice.

 

[beggar98]

addendum Just out of interest, how many people with Fenders would say that their fender is better than a $150 clone? Most, I suspect. And for good reason. They ARE! It's a hard pill to swallow that they are worth *that much* more, but truth is... They probably are. The annoying thing about a thread like this is that it irritates all the people who don't have a boutique bass, and makes them feel thay have a second class instrument. This ISN'T the case. They have a great instrument from a fine pedigree. But if price isn't a factor, a boutique bass, custom made, and chosen for it's fine workmanship and playability, ...well it goes without saying really.

Interesting point. I think most (PLEASE NOTICE- MOST is not ALL) would agree that a $300 Fender is better than a $150 SX, but is it twice as good? The same rule should apply to a $1500 Fender vs. a $3000 Sadowsky. The Sadowsky is better, but is it twice as good?