Double Bass Who wants a VL208?

[mrpackerguy]

Hey, fellas. I thought about not chiming in; skip this if you're in a hurry given the low likelihood of meaningful content.

I've been using VL-208s for about ten years. I've owned five or six, all bought used. Time was when these cost $450-$550 on the used market. I've never owned more than two at any one time. For years they were part of my "savings" -- when things were fat I had two and when things were lean I'd sell one. At the moment I've got two. It's very rare for me to bring both to an indoor gig.


"Now that I've deceased
My record sales increased
I'm making lots of royalties . . . "
-- Richard Thompson, "Call Me Mister Death"


Because you have spent much of your adult life honestly and fairly selling gear which goes 80-95% of the way there. Your ears perk up like a chihuahua when they hear something with genuine refinement.


As Rick Vice notes above, there was another spec sheet reflecting sensitivity of 95 dB. Although I am always skeptical of manufacturers' SPL specs it's safe to say that many newer cabs are louder than VL-208s.


Rat own. Although in fairness these boxes are no uglier than any other speaker cabinet ever covered in black carpet. Nice-looking wood-veneer boxes are attached to your stereo and stay at home.



I used a Wizzy 10 box a lot maybe last year and the year before. Great sounding box. Loud, light, invisible. More mid and slightly less nuance than the VL-208 but I can't imagine that it made a difference to an audience once the drums and saxophone joined in.

Ultimately I went back to the VL-208. The weight is no big deal; if it was a cooler full of beer you wouldn't think twice (and I'm 49 FWIW). I put an Ampeg clip-on speaker/luggage telescoping handle-and-wheels set on, so if I'm hauling a long way it rolls.

I play out no more than once a week and sometimes once a month. I'll pay the cost in weight and sensitivity to get the extra nuance that I hear through the VL-208. It's pointless to talk about how xxx box is more convenient when on the next trip in from the car you're bringing in A DOUBLE BASS.

And finally, that decision means that I don't spend any time thinking about what seven kinds of speaker box I need to buy and sell to find one I like as much as what I've got in my basement.

Play on!

Well played!

 

[Ric Vice]

Though I'm sure I'd be happy with the sound, I'm not sure that I'd enjoy thinking "$1500?" every time I looked at that butt ugly cabinet sitting on the floor. I'd rather pay my local guy to build up something special for that kind of money.

Nah, don't want/need one of these, unless it comes up in the used market.

Mr PC,
Point very well taken. Granted I'm fortunate enough to already have a VL 208, and the box is unique, but newer designs including EA's newer cabinets sound almost as good and are much lighter. So I hope if 40 individuals actually want the cabinet that they build it for them, but personally I don't need a second one. They do ocasionally come up on the used market. As newer lighter better cabinets are designed I think you may see a few more of them for sale.

Ric

 

[MR PC]

Rat own. Although in fairness these boxes are no uglier than any other speaker cabinet ever covered in black carpet. Nice-looking wood-veneer boxes are attached to your stereo and stay at home.

That's right!

I still don't understand why EA doesn't just build this cab on a limited run basis, given the interest in it. Say 25 a year to start. It's been established that the drivers are available commercially. They would surely sell out, and make their profit too. The waiting period for the next years run would generate the orders EA desires.

Asking for prepay from a minimum of 40 people is greedy, IMO.

 

[Uncletoad]

That's right!

I still don't understand why EA doesn't just build this cab on a limited run basis, given the interest in it. Say 25 a year to start. It's been established that the drivers are available commercially. They would surely sell out, and make their profit too. The waiting period for the next years run would generate the orders EA desires.

Asking for prepay from a minimum of 40 people is greedy, IMO.

Duh... It needs new R&D for the no longer available tweeter, or did you not bother to read that. In addition there is no clear evidence of much of a demand. If this thread is any indication they could sell a total of 3 if they are less than $1500 which they may not be able to do.

I think your accusations of greed are ignorant and inflammatory.

Prove it.

 

[Bob Gollihur]

That's right!

I still don't understand why EA doesn't just build this cab on a limited run basis, given the interest in it. Say 25 a year to start. It's been established that the drivers are available commercially. They would surely sell out, and make their profit too. The waiting period for the next years run would generate the orders EA desires.

Asking for prepay from a minimum of 40 people is greedy, IMO.

Greedy is a strong and very wrong word. This is not their first time at the rodeo. Doesn't anyone else get a very strong feeling of deja vu here?

In late 2008 the NM208 was the buzz, and the excitement in the TB crowd was palpable. Prototypes were made, and a very favorable magazine review was published. I was asked to take preorders for the limited first run.

Two people actually went through the steps of preordering a cab.

Enthusiasm does not produce actual dollars, and many a company who mistook it as promised revenue is now dead.

 

[Ric Vice]

That's right!

I still don't understand why EA doesn't just build this cab on a limited run basis, given the interest in it. Say 25 a year to start. It's been established that the drivers are available commercially. They would surely sell out, and make their profit too. The waiting period for the next years run would generate the orders EA desires.

Asking for prepay from a minimum of 40 people is greedy, IMO.

Mr. PC
They already got burned on the NM 208 which went through many years of development and prototypes and no one was interested in because they couldn't get it to sound exactly like a VL 208. Fast foward to 2010 and there's lots of other competition out there that sounds almost as good, costs less and weighs lots less than the venerable VL 208. The realities of producing a cabinet like that are way trickier and complicated then most of us realize. Frankly, they'd be better off just to sell the plans to individuals who wanted to have one custom built, but the cost of that would might make $1,200.00 to $1,500.00 look like a steal. However, it's doubtful that they would do that either. IMHO

Ric

 

[anonymous02282011]

Asking for prepay from a minimum of 40 people is greedy, IMO.

In defense of EA (who I personally like) this whole shebang started because I wanted a few more 208s and couldn't find em anywhere.

I spoke them about it and they said that's what it would take.

It was all initiated by me, only because it's the best darn speaker cabinet I've heard.

I would love for them to make a small run every year. I think the only reason they don't is because it takes a certain bulk order of components to make it worth their while $$wise. Even though the speakers are commercially available some of the components are custom for EA.

 

[MR PC]

I think your accusations of greed are ignorant and inflammatory.

Prove it.

Nothing to prove on my end, dude. Speak to yourself, if you need proving.

It's my opinion based on the speculations raised in this thread.

The guy from EA pm'd me and explained the deal. That was nice, cleared up some details.

I'm sticking with my opinion though.

 

[Uncletoad]

Nothing to prove on my end, dude. Speak to yourself, if you need proving.

It's my opinion based on the speculations raised in this thread.

The guy from EA pm'd me and explained the deal. That was nice, cleared up some details.

I'm sticking with my opinion though.

Typical MR. PC BS. Kick up dust with no information.

 

[Ric Vice]

In defense of EA (who I personally like) this whole shebang started because I wanted a few more 208s and couldn't find em anywhere.

EA certianly is a great company.

I spoke them about it and they said that's what it would take.

Personally, I think that it's rather amazing that they would even consider it. Their newer designs are infinitely easier to build and sound very good. It was nice of you convince them to consider it.

It was all initiated by me, only because it's the best darn speaker cabinet I've heard.

Agreed, unfortunately it's also one of the most complicated bass cabinets ever built.

I would love for them to make a small run every year. I think the only reason they don't is because it takes a certain bulk order of components to make it worth their while $$wise. Even though the speakers are commercially available some of the components are custom for EA.

It would be interesting to know how many of those cabinets were built in the initial run. It's a good bet that there weren't that many in the first place, I don't think it sold all that well.

 

[anonymous02282011]

Agreed, unfortunately it's also one of the most complicated bass cabinets ever built.

Having built speaker cabs before, I asked John Dong if they would send me the plans and sell me whatever parts they have so that I could build one myself, but when he started explaining the way they made the joints air-tight I quickly realized this was way beyond DYI.

 

[MR PC]

Typical MR. PC BS. Kick up dust with no information.

That's a line straight out of some PM's somebody shared with me offline some time ago..........

This is a 3 page thread with enough information for me to form an opinion about the OP's proposition, Toad. It's small potatoes. Outside of that, what do you need?

It's only my personal opinion, nothing more, nothing less. You don't seem to understand that. I'd suggest you let it be.

 

[Ric Vice]

Having built speaker cabs before, I asked John Dong if they would send me the plans and sell me whatever parts they have so that I could build one myself, but when he started explaining the way they made the joints air-tight I quickly realized this was way beyond DYI.

When you get a cabinet that has that many components and chambers it's a very complicated build. It's really a high end three way stereo cabinet that could take the required wattage for live performance. Three way bass cabinets are kind of unusual anyway aren't they? Accugroove is the only company I can recall doing that anymore except custom builds like LDS. Its not a VL 208 but Don Oatman's 2X8 three way is a pretty nice cabinet.

Ric

 

[barneybass]

I'm interested in a cab, will keep an eye on the thread.

 

[anonymous02282011]

you know, all this talk of price is speculation.

I was asking how many TBers would be interested in one if they were offered again.

IF that happened and IF EA decided to make some moves only then would we know if the price might be prohibitive.

 

[MR PC]

When you get a cabinet that has that many components and chambers it's a very complicated build. It's really a high end three way stereo cabinet that could take the required wattage for live performance. Three way bass cabinets are kind of unusual anyway aren't they? Accugroove is the only company I can recall doing that anymore except custom builds like LDS. Its not a VL 208 but Don Oatman's 2X8 three way is a pretty nice cabinet.

Ric

That's right Ric. The VL208 is a desirable and very useful piece of equipment for a select group of bassists. It's a niche market. I still think EA could build these on a yearly limited run, and make some customers happy without sending a guy out to hustle an order worth tens of thousands of dollars just to get a cabinet for himself. The guy at Sunrise pickups (acoustic guitar) has done this for years, and is very successful. He always sells out, and there is a waiting list for his product by the end of each year.

Don Oatman (LDS) is a really nice guy, and manages to keep his customers happy, one at a time. He makes some pretty unusual bass cabs.

 

[EAJohn]

I just did some preliminary pricing for a run of 40:VL-208 cabinets and the Retail price is around $1100.

This is based upon minimum orders from the vendors(i.e. 100 Woofers min/Crossovers etc.).

The reason why we discontinued the VL-208 was that they were not selling. It took us over 18 months to get rid of the last 3 cabinets.

We tend not to use stock drivers because the stock one's generally do not meet our requirements. It is possible to do a very small run of cabinets if one were to use stock drivers. The original VL-208 used a modified stock midrange but the Woofer and Tweeter were produced to our specs.

Thanks for the interest in one of our oldies but we have to be financially prudent if we wish to stay in business during these financially tough times.

John Dong/Euphonic Audio Inc

 

[all_grown_up]

When you get a cabinet that has that many components and chambers it's a very complicated build. It's really a high end three way stereo cabinet that could take the required wattage for live performance. Three way bass cabinets are kind of unusual anyway aren't they? Accugroove is the only company I can recall doing that anymore except custom builds like LDS. Its not a VL 208 but Don Oatman's 2X8 three way is a pretty nice cabinet.

Ric

Just a minder that Acme builds three way very high fidelity cabnets. In addition to be being extended range bass cabinets they are much better PA cabinets than most equipment marketed as such and are pretty good for stereo music

 

[peterpalmieri]

FWIW - I own two VL208 cabinets and love them to death for DB. If I didn't own 2 already I would put myself on this list immediately, no questions asked. This is hands down the best cabinet I have come accross for amplifying my double bass.

There has been some inference of BETTER, lighter, louder and cheaper cabinets being built. I am all for that and not shy to spend a few bucks to try out new stuff. I'd love to have a 20lb. box for $500 that amplifies my DB in the same way that the VL208 does, heck I'd pay twice that if it actually could do all this.

Unfortunately today that cabinet does not exist, for the guys that really connect with the sound of the VL208 there really is no substitue on the market.

I'm on Long Island, anyone that is considering this and has not played one come by with your bass and try out my VL208s, just send me a PM.

 

[peterpalmieri]

.......

Hey Phil,

I know we share the same love for the VL208 and you've had a chance to play the wizzy cabinets. And most notably you had an opportunity to audition the NM208 prototype that never made it into production. Not sure if you've ever played an NL210.

Really dig that You Tube clip with the SA200 and VL208s although $3000 and 50lbs+ is not in the cards for a one rig solution in my world.

I reread Tom's review of the NM208 from Bass Gear Magazine today as well.

Let me state the obvious, EA no longer offers the VL208 and they no longer offer the NL210.

Do you think the NM208 could fill the slot of those two cabinets?

I guess what I am also asking is if you didn't own a VL208 and had to buy new cabinets, would you be satisfied with the the M line wizzy12, hope for them to change their mind on the NM208 or is it back to the drawing board?

Personally I'd love a cabinet that sounds as good as the VL208 with DB and as good as the NL210 with electric or close. That would fill a huge slot in the EA line up and make a lot of us doublers very happy campers...

Seems to me without the NL210 in the EA lineup the NM208 might have significantly more interest then it did at the time.

Anybody have additional thoughts?