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whole band going DI - tips?

S

sonic assassin

Nov 8, 2008
3,455
34
cincinnati
#1
i got this crazy idea that we should stop lugging amps around and some of the guys are keen on it. some skeptical but supportive.

my idea is simple. bass will come from a BDDI, since very little amp tone comes through with that thing... its all tech21 all day. the guitars will run through line 6 pod. an xt for the keys player/occasional rhythm guitarist, an hd500 for the lead guitar, and another xt for the fission guitar sim occasionally run on the bass (which normally runs to a small marshall combo).

the only issues ive come up with are trusting monitors and their respective drunken mixing engineers, and the event that we play a place that didnt intend to mic any amps. for that i have a couple solutions. we will still each have an amp laying around and in the event something comes up and we need backline, we either borrow it or use the medium sized stuff we have. likely run the guitars into the effects returns to preserve tones.

i saw oh, sleeper a few months back and the lead guitarist was using axefx. his rig was simple. one (or two i dont recall) axefx units, a wireless system, a midi controller for the system, and 2 powered monitors. one at his board, another where an amp should be. played flawlessly. so i was looking into powered monitors. i figure if we take the thru out on the DI box and run it to a powered speaker, then we each get some assurance that we can hear at least ourselves. i personally dont like the other instruments in my monitor, just kick drum, lead vocal and my vocal. i was specifically looking into the alto 12" speakers. 600 watts. 2 inputs. should be plenty of juice, even for bass.

practice will get a litte weird, but we will find a way. all in all it will save a lot of hassle on transport and my not-as-gear-savvy band from bumping knobs and wondering why things sound so weird. love walking across the stage to re-eq their stuff. this is hardcore music.. you dont need reverb. ugh.

i digress. is there any part of this equation that im missing? something ive overlooked? modeling software/hardware isnt new to me, but using it in a live setting certainly is. welcoming all suggestions. and please, for the love of all things holy, dont come at me with the analog is better than digital noise. ive heard it. i agree. i just cant afford to haul or keep up with tube amps.

thanks :)
 
#2
Worth a shot, I've mixed for bands that fly this way, it can work, if it doesn't kill your vibe. Rehearse A LOT because it will feel really weird for a while.
If you're doing to try this try to get IEM receivers that can be configured with a "more me" feature - ambient input
 
#3

sonic assassin said:
i figure if we take the thru out on the DI box and run it to a powered speaker, then we each get some assurance that we can hear at least ourselves.
Click to expand...
Bingo, you nailed it right there. I use a small EV ZX1 speaker just for this purpose, basically a personal monitor with nothing but my bass in it. It only has an 8” woofer, but that’s fine, as I get all the lows I need from the house subs. I set it on a short stool in front of me (not behind, like a regular stage rig), aimed up at my head. You might run the DI through-out to a pre-amp of some kind, which would give you some tone control over the powered speaker. For instance, I like the highs rolled out of the EV as it’s kind of bright.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
Big Cabs Club #23
Pedulla Club #45

 
#5
My band does this about the same way as you describe. We use the Allen and Heath MixWizard 3M, then we have some wireless units for IEM and gits, then we have our preamp stuff all in one rack.

It works like a charm. Being on stage sounds and feels exactly the same as being in the jam room and is very comfortable.

I'd recommend it!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...7165179&set=vb.344681915620567&type=3&theater

\m/cliffB\m/ said:
10u rack unit
2 Axe fx
a sansamp rbi.
IEMs

band in a box.
Click to expand...
 
#6
We did it once for about a year. We had no amps onstage and everything came through large side shots and floor monitors. The guitarists had amps off stage that were mic-ed. The sound engineer mixed from the middle of the stage and the FOH got the same feed as our monitors (only one mix). It sounded like studio sound....magnificent. The down side: it took extensive sound checks & made things a lot more complicated. It would probably be easier nowadays. I have a friend who plays in a band that does it now. They use electronic drums and everything is direct. They play mostly weddings and corporate events. They've made a shoe box sized wooden box with one large knob on it. They tell the person running the event to simply turn it up or down as they please. They have software which makes their in ear monitor feed sound like the acoustics in Carnegie Hall!!!
 
#13
you mean to tell me that a FOH engineer would rather take his chances micing a loud amp on stage and fighting outside noise than taking a DI from a perfectly set up studio quality digital board? i think they'd appreciate the professionalism. either way they were going to put up a mic. now they just need a little more juice on the board.

the personal monitors are just for us. not for big stage volume or checking our tone. its to ensure that when the monitor guy is drunk/braindead or the club isnt sufficient, we still get to hear whats going on. tone won't be an issue. the presets will be the best sounds any FOH engineer has ever heard.
 
#15
lowfreq33 said:
But with dragging all the personal monitors it seems like you're making things more complicated, not less.
Click to expand...

+1. If you're going down this road, I'd go with pre-amps feeding a splitter snake, in-ears, and one of the newish small digital boards that lets the musicians control their individual IEM mixes via iOS/WiFi. That would give you a very compact and easy to set-up rig, with predictable sound from night to night. It also gives FOH what they want w/o hassle, and gives the band control over their monitor mixes. Downside is it'll co$t.
 
#16
we are putting POD sounds through the PA, taking the thru jack and feeding a small 1x12 or 1x10 monitor. its basically cutting us all down to 1x12 combos on stage and letting FOH fill out the rest. not sure how thats complicated. it takes the place of an amp, just smaller, lighter, simpler and a lot more powerful.

IEM and extra mixers in stage, especially running on wifi or bluetooth or something... THAT sounds more complicated than it needs to be.
 
#17
sonic assassin said:
i got this crazy idea that we should stop lugging amps around
Click to expand...
sonic assassin said:
the only issues ive come up with are trusting monitors and their respective drunken mixing engineers, and the event that we play a place that didnt intend to mic any amps. for that i have a couple solutions. we will still each have an amp laying around
Click to expand...

In-ears makes for an easier haul than carrying powered 1x12 speakers as monitors for each player, especially as you plan to also carry light-duty backline as insurance against venues that have their own way of handling sound.

sonic assassin said:
i figure if we take the thru out on the DI box and run it to a powered speaker, then we each get some assurance that we can hear at least ourselves. i personally dont like the other instruments in my monitor, just kick drum, lead vocal and my vocal.
Click to expand...

Custom mixes for each musician will require a mixer b/w your instrument preamps and your individual powered monitors. Elsewhere, you mention a digital mixer. You're halfway to having a band-controlled IEM system.

sonic assassin said:
we are putting POD sounds through the PA, taking the thru jack and feeding a small 1x12 or 1x10 monitor.
Click to expand...

sonic assassin said:
i figure if we take the thru out on the DI box and run it to a powered speaker, then we each get some assurance that we can hear at least ourselves.
Click to expand...

This plan is well short of what you describe above. Depending on the powered speakers you use, you'll be able to mix one or two signals. Without a mixer, you'll also be limited in routing any given signal to multiple monitor mixes.

sonic assassin said:
IEM and extra mixers in stage, especially running on wifi or bluetooth or something... THAT sounds more complicated than it needs to be.
Click to expand...

Actually, once you have it set up, it's pretty easy night after night. Players have their basic mix set up and saved as an aux mix on the digital board. You don't have to train or to depend on the FOH engineer for your monitor mixes, and all the FOH guy needs to do is plug into the splitter snake. Compared to buying (and lugging) powered monitors *and* small backline amps, costs are comparable or lower, and your load in and set up are simpler. Just sayin'.
 
#18
derrico1 said:
In-ears makes for an easier haul than carrying powered 1x12 speakers as monitors for each player, especially as you plan to also carry light-duty backline as insurance against venues that have their own way of handling sound.

Custom mixes for each musician will require a mixer b/w your instrument preamps and your individual powered monitors. Elsewhere, you mention a digital mixer. You're halfway to having a band-controlled IEM system.

This plan is well short of what you describe above. Depending on the powered speakers you use, you'll be able to mix one or two signals. Without a mixer, you'll also be limited in routing any given signal to multiple monitor mixes.

Actually, once you have it set up, it's pretty easy night after night. Players have their basic mix set up and saved as an aux mix on the digital board. You don't have to train or to depend on the FOH engineer for your monitor mixes, and all the FOH guy needs to do is plug into the splitter snake. Compared to buying (and lugging) powered monitors *and* small backline amps, costs are comparable or lower, and your load in and set up are simpler. Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

in ears are expensive, awkward, and i'll need a rackmounted system. might as well have a 20 pound speaker instead. no one needs a custom mix. just the ability to get a little extra bit of themselves. nothing else will run into those personal monitors.

there are no amps. just monitors and our personal monitors. no backline. i think we're having 2 different conversations.
 

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