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Who's behind the beat?

B

BurghMuso

Jul 23, 2020
15
13
#1
Hey guys,

I'm doing some recording at home and arranged all the parts for a tune. It's a Jazzy Blues number along the lines of Robben Ford.

I'm trying to improve the feel of the tune and my understanding around who/what plays on the beat and who/what is behind. I understand that it can vary but I'm just wondering about what my be a good formula as a starting point?

I've started with the bass on the beat, the drums and rhythm guitar slightly behind.
What are peoples thoughts? I'm a newb to this so please be gentle :)

Thx
 
#9
Agree with the above. There's no restriction. If you're worried try it multiple ways. If it's all you I hear you can push your bandleader around all day, right?
I've spent a couple hours chopping on a clean channel Telecaster today. I think you're going in a good direction but you're the boss.
 
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#12
It sounds like you're going for a chicago blues shuffle, but IMO that snare pattern doesn't work because you're playing the high hat part on the snare - instead of the high hat - and it's making the tune 'gallop' instead of shuffle, and consequently it feels too stiff. Try something like this Fleetwood Mac - Don't Stop (Official Music Video) - YouTube

P.S. Feel free to disregard everything I've said.
 
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#15
PJ Muzikmansky said:
It sounds like you're going for a chicago blues shuffle, but IMO that snare pattern doesn't work because you're playing the high hat part on the snare - instead of the high hat - and it's making the tune 'gallop' instead of shuffle, and consequently it feels too stiff. Try something like this Fleetwood Mac - Don't Stop (Official Music Video) - YouTube

P.S. Feel free to disregard everything I've said.
Click to expand...
Yeah and I hear what you mean but who says it's supposed to sound like Fleetwood Mac? You still got to put the other instruments in there and make it whatever he wants
 
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#16
BurghMuso said:
Hey guys,

I'm doing some recording at home and arranged all the parts for a tune. It's a Jazzy Blues number along the lines of Robben Ford.

I'm trying to improve the feel of the tune and my understanding around who/what plays on the beat and who/what is behind. I understand that it can vary but I'm just wondering about what my be a good formula as a starting point?

I've started with the bass on the beat, the drums and rhythm guitar slightly behind.
What are peoples thoughts? I'm a newb to this so please be gentle :)

Thx
Click to expand...
Drums on the beat, bass a tiny bit behind.
 
#17
An idea to consider is the drummer's pattern is not necessarily perfectly square, and the triplets are not necessarily perfect triplets. (by square I mean beats 1,2,3,4 fall exactly equal distant from each other in time). Different feels have all sorts of ways of distorting time.

The triplet feel seems to be wound too tight to my ears, but it could be because the pocket between the drums and bass is too big. Try this: Relax the overall pocket between the bass and drums a bit, but also accent and lay the drummer's snare hits on 2 and 4 back a bit. Then give it another listen.

IMHO the drum fills sound great, but the overall feel is a bit disjunct and nervous. In some places, especially during the first time through the form, it feels like its about to fall apart. Leave the triplets alone for know and make the other changes before assessing the triplets.

Try looping one bar and working on the drum part to get the feel just right.
 
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#19
Spin Doctor said:
Yeah and I hear what you mean but who says it's supposed to sound like Fleetwood Mac? You still got to put the other instruments in there and make it whatever he wants
Click to expand...
The Fleetwood Mac reference isn’t a goal, it’s an example of a shuffle feel. The suggestion could’ve been any of a rainbow of tunes, e.g. Boz Scaggs’ Lido Shuffle, Carole King’s Smackwater Jack, Booker T & the MGs Green Onions, George Thorogood’s Move It On Over, ZZ Top’s La Grange, SRV Pride and Joy, Joe Walsh Rocky Mountain Way, et al.
 
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#20
lfmn16 said:
I used to play with a drummer that would go into excruciating detail when explaining whether he was playing ahead or behind the beat. I finally just said, "Play it the way it feels right, I don't need an explanation." That's always been my take. I play it where it feels right.
Click to expand...
100% this... when players try to get pedantic about analyzing a groove it inevitably doesn't feel right. E.g. you could spend a lifetime analyzing how New Orleans second line players flex the groove, but if you can't feel it you'll never get it right. Sometimes you gotta just tell yer brain to shut up and play.
 
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