now only to find that the perceived wattage boost was stuck in the speaker cables coupled to the two 4 ohm cabs I ran back then. Is this like the electronic version of a gunk lined colon?
probably not unless they were 100'+ long cables
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Why 2 ohms is not a good idea..
- Thread starter chicago_mike
- Start date
probably not unless they were 100'+ long cables
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Oh, no: next up: do we need 6-gauge cables if daisy-chaining cabs? ; }
...Bass players often think there is some great advantage to using 12-gauge 3-foot-long speaker cables, but it's just not an issue.
...Bass players often think there is some great advantage to using 12-gauge 3-foot-long speaker cables, but it's just not an issue.
There's related something I don't understand that's been bugging me for ages. I use fairly thick, short lengths of speaker cables as recommended, but all my cabs have these tiny little wires going from their input jacks to the speakers.
Am I being incredibly stupid by missing something obvious here, or is it really a paradox?
Am I being incredibly stupid by missing something obvious here, or is it really a paradox?
Yeah, what about the internal wiring of any given speaker box? Sometimes, they can be not only thin, but much longer than they need be.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Yeah, 16 gauge is in a lot of cabs, and I've seen 18 and even 20. If those low-ballers were mine, they'd be retrofitted to 16 or 14 which I find the largest that's easy to deal with.
EDIT: And if you are using serious wattage - or could - here's another prompt to retrofit with Speakons.
EDIT: And if you are using serious wattage - or could - here's another prompt to retrofit with Speakons.
+1 I primarily use the heavy short stuff for 'perceived reliability' versus thinking it has anything to do with the tone. Same thing for Speakons... it just feels better to have them click and lock!
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
I actually stepped back from 12-gauge to 14 some years back for short runs, liking the increased flexibility and lesser bulk. You should see my old 5-foot long 12/4 biamp cable. It could practically drag a CA9 off the back of the enclosure and ate up the gym bag like nobody's business ; }
Thanks for your concern, but this bit of your post has me completely bewildered. Care to elaborate?
I suspect that not many people are running 2 Ohm cabinets and therefore pushing the full current through a single cable. On the other hand, two 4 Ohm cabs daisy chained together will draw full current through the first cable in the chain since it will "see" the full load. This argues in favor of running individual cables from your amp to each speaker.
Another thing to remember is that your amp is rarely (if ever) pumping out full power when you are playing in any normal situation.
Another thing to remember is that your amp is rarely (if ever) pumping out full power when you are playing in any normal situation.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
It does if there is a bottleneck there in the first place. But there usually isn't. That's more likely if you are daisy chaining for PA-length runs though...
Dude! There is NO good reason for you to have a 100' cable between your head and cab. Even if you don't understand (or believe) any of the stuff being talked about here. Get a freakin 6' cable and be done with it. If you are pulling down any serious amount of watts, a coiled up 100' foot cable for your bass head and cab STACKED ON TOP OF EACH OTHER (even from a performace angle) is just....(trying to be friendly) ........... (trying to be really friendly)............ um.........................(don't say it).......................dumb. :scowl:
Sorry....I tried.......I couldn't help it.
Bass players!!!! If we don't have enough to worry about looking after guitar players we HAVE to make much ado about nothing to have something to obsess about!!!
Paul
Paul
+++111
I could not agree more. Running a bass amp at 2ohms, that is built to run at 2ohms, is a total non-issue. Plug your cabs in and go, and don't give it a second thought.
I've got 500w's into 2 2x10's at 2ohms and 2 12guage 6' Speakon cables... and I've yet to have an excuse to run it maxed. I'm not worrying at all.
Wow, a lightbulb just went off. Next winter I'll run a 200 ft length of 20 gauge lampwire from my old Firebass from my practice room to the other end of the house to one cab, and then run another 200 ft. length back to the practice space into my other cab... No sense letting all that heat go to waste. I might even see if I can get one of those rebate deals with the electrical co-op.
The economy/jobs outlook must be getting better. First we get all hot and bothered about blown speakers, and now this.
Yep, 2 ohms is "almost a dead short" I got some news - 4 ohms is "almost a dead short" 8 ohms is "almost a dead short" compared to 100 ohms, 1K ohm, 1meg ohm, and I, for one, am just worried sick about it. NOT.
The economy/jobs outlook must be getting better. First we get all hot and bothered about blown speakers, and now this.
Yep, 2 ohms is "almost a dead short" I got some news - 4 ohms is "almost a dead short" 8 ohms is "almost a dead short" compared to 100 ohms, 1K ohm, 1meg ohm, and I, for one, am just worried sick about it. NOT.
If you go the other way with 1200W into 8 Ohms, you start getting into high voltages. Speaker cables will turn into Jacob Ladder like in old horror movies
And the rug covering your cabinet will burn and smell like burnt cat hair. (Whatever that smells like - I wouldn't know)
And the rug covering your cabinet will burn and smell like burnt cat hair. (Whatever that smells like - I wouldn't know)
First, worrying about running an amp at 2 ohms when it is rated for it is ridiculous. If it couldn't be safely done, the manufacturer wouldn't rate their equipment for it. They always have a little safety factor built in to the specs. They don't need lawsuits due to everyone's amps catching fire, and they don't need half of their amps returned under warranty because it is built in such a fragile way that they blew up when they saw 1.9999 ohms, or were used with a 16 gauge speaker cable instead of 14 gauge.
The OPs math and the assumptions of how things work is flawed. Since the speaker cable itself is in series with the cab, a 25 foot long 14 gauge speaker cable won't cause the amp to draw more current than using the same cab with a 1 foot long 2 gauge cable. In fact, it will cause the amp to draw less current, as the load the amp sees will be a higher resistance (impedance to be technically accurate). In series, all resistances are added up and the sum total is what the amp will see. It is true that the more undersized a cable is, and the longer a cable is, the more power it will soak up, but that is not going to blow up the amp, and the cable isn't going to catch fire.
For instance, say you have a 2 ohm cab and you somehow hook it up to the amp with a one-foot-long 2 gauge cable that is .0001 ohms. The amp will "see" a sum total of 2.0001 ohms. I won't even get into how ridiculous this is because the wiring inside the amp or the cab is way smaller. I'm not even talking about the 16 gauge wire from the connectors to the speakers. Ever seen the size of the wire in a speaker's voice coil?
Now take the same 2 ohm cab hooked up to the amp with an entire 500' long spool of 14 gauge wire that, for sake of argument, measures out at 2 ohms. Well, the amp will see a 4 ohm load. You're putting out less power and the transformer that the OP is so worried about melting is running at a lower amperage output that it was before with the true 2 ohm load.
Heck, you could make a 1 ohm cab and hook it up with that 500' spool of wire (2 ohms, remember?) and the amp would see 3 ohms, as it will think it was a 3 ohm cab, as all the amp cares about is the sum total, and doesn't care if it is a cab, a wire or a light bulb.
No worries, safe to continue with life...
The OPs math and the assumptions of how things work is flawed. Since the speaker cable itself is in series with the cab, a 25 foot long 14 gauge speaker cable won't cause the amp to draw more current than using the same cab with a 1 foot long 2 gauge cable. In fact, it will cause the amp to draw less current, as the load the amp sees will be a higher resistance (impedance to be technically accurate). In series, all resistances are added up and the sum total is what the amp will see. It is true that the more undersized a cable is, and the longer a cable is, the more power it will soak up, but that is not going to blow up the amp, and the cable isn't going to catch fire.
For instance, say you have a 2 ohm cab and you somehow hook it up to the amp with a one-foot-long 2 gauge cable that is .0001 ohms. The amp will "see" a sum total of 2.0001 ohms. I won't even get into how ridiculous this is because the wiring inside the amp or the cab is way smaller. I'm not even talking about the 16 gauge wire from the connectors to the speakers. Ever seen the size of the wire in a speaker's voice coil?
Now take the same 2 ohm cab hooked up to the amp with an entire 500' long spool of 14 gauge wire that, for sake of argument, measures out at 2 ohms. Well, the amp will see a 4 ohm load. You're putting out less power and the transformer that the OP is so worried about melting is running at a lower amperage output that it was before with the true 2 ohm load.
Heck, you could make a 1 ohm cab and hook it up with that 500' spool of wire (2 ohms, remember?) and the amp would see 3 ohms, as it will think it was a 3 ohm cab, as all the amp cares about is the sum total, and doesn't care if it is a cab, a wire or a light bulb.
No worries, safe to continue with life...
After reading his post over a few times, I'm starting to think that he meant 100 inches. As you said, 100 feet of cable between head and cab is extraordinarily pointless and stupid. No one's that stupid.
