I'm looking at 9 pages of replies including yours that tend to prove this theory incorrect.
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Why are lined Fretless even a thing?
- Thread starter citizenchris099
- Start date
I'm looking at 9 pages of replies including yours that tend to prove this theory incorrect.
I learned without lines and without prior familiarity with the marker pattern. Consequently I find a lined fingerboard to be a real distraction.
Interesting! In what way does it distract you? For example, does it draw your attention away from your playing, or make you less accurate or similar? Just trying to understand.... the instruments I learned on as fretless unlined were violin, viola, and now cello... and although it's not quite the same thing, as a violinist I have taught young kids who (unfortunately) came from previous teachers who used markers on the fingerboard to indicate finger positions, actual tape you can feel (since looking isn't helpful down the length of a fingerboard on violin).... and I can play their violins as well as I can play any small sized piece of junk violins LoL. But it's different maybe from looking at it sideways...
your experience is new to me since I think I've never talked about this with an electric bassist who didn't start on fretted bass but who actually only has ever played unlined fretless electric (at least until trying lined, as noted).
Interesting, if somewhat unique, scenario here
Interesting! In what way does it distract you? For example, does it draw your attention away from your playing, or make you less accurate or similar? Just trying to understand.... the instruments I learned on as fretless unlined were violin, viola, and now cello... and although it's not quite the same thing, as a violinist I have taught young kids who (unfortunately) came from previous teachers who used markers on the fingerboard to indicate finger positions, actual tape you can feel (since looking isn't helpful down the length of a fingerboard on violin).... and I can play their violins as well as I can play any small sized piece of junk violins LoL. But it's different maybe from looking at it sideways...
your experience is new to me since I think I've never talked about this with an electric bassist who didn't start on fretted bass but who actually only has ever played unlined fretless electric (at least until trying lined, as noted).
Interesting, if somewhat unique, scenario here
The distraction is the presence of something to see makes me want to look, and it feels like taking my eyes off the road to rubberneck a car crash. It really is that simple.
Whether things distract someone or not can be very different for different persons, and there is nothing wrong about this.
Concerning the lines, besides the fact that (for me) a visual reference located on the top of the neck is more helpful than if located on the front of the neck, I find that (for me) lines provide too much information, as compared to dots on 3, 5, 7, etc. This is because, I don't use them to tell me where to stop the string to sound in-tune, but rather to orient myself on the fingerboard (eg, where to go to play Bbm7 etc.).
Think of them like road signs showing you the way to your destination: you don't want to have road signs every 50m, you certainly prefer to have a smaller number of them conveniently located.
Concerning frets, as I don't have any on my basses, they don't distract me, but I don't miss them either. As already said this is completely personal, and I find it good that others perceive it differently.
Concerning intonation, and the help provided by frets and lines to play in-tune, all the discussion has been about equal-temperament. But this is not the only way to intonate: a violinist playing the Beethoven concerto, or blues singer do not play or sing according to equal temperament. Different intervals may have different requirements when it comes to intonation: fifths and fourths require a very accurate intonation as they are very consonant, whereas a leading tone resolving to the tonic would allow a much broader range of intonation for expressivity. One of the nice things about fretless instruments is to make this potential for expressivity accessible (at the risk of playing out of tune at times).
Smooth_bass88
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- Oct 31, 2006
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The audience and/or the other musicians you're playing with absolutely do not care if your fretless is lined or unlined. They absolutely do care however, if you're playing out of tune. I've owned both. Fretlines (or lack there of) are not part of my criteria when choosing a fretless.
Why do all the name players with the best intonation have lines?
Regarding equal temperament... that is an assumption on your part that isn't true, at least in my case.
I can only be accurate in my adjustment above or below equal temperament if I have a solid basis to measure away from.
If I jump up to 5th position and miss by 3 or 4 mm, and I then play exactly the correct finger placement relative to my hand position to play the correct temperament to be in tune with the instruments I'm currently playing with (or within the chord I'm playing myself), it will be out of tune because I didn't have a reliable reference point to start with. That's where the fret lines come in play for me. Or even more simply - if I know I want to play a few cents flat on a given note, and I see the line, I can see pretty exactly where I would play it to be a few cents flat. No guesswork.
Again, that is not something that most electric bassist have ever even considered, but for me, it matters.
And again fret lines are there for me (or were, when I had a bass with them), to provide reference points when jumping around and when being paid to be perfect on every take (particularly the first take). That includes when reading music for ensembles that have different intonation from fretted stringed instruments, such as various horn players, or classical string players.
I did not make any assumption about your playing (or anybody's). I only pointed out that the lines indicate the position of equal temperament notes, and that a fretless gives the possibility to play notes that are not equally tempered, which may serve the music (or not...).
You tell us you make an intentional use of the possibility of playing non equally tempered and that you use the fretlines as a guide for this: I think that is really great.
If you think of it there is some truth in there.....there are always exceptions of course like Pino and Alain Caron.
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I don’t play fretless but in my experience, there have been many times where overtones on stage completely obliterate clear pitch. Many times I have had to look at my fretboard just to make sure I’m playing the right note because it sounds very wrong. I’m not the only one who’s noticed this weird issue. If I played fretless without lines I would lost in those circumstances.
Pino is a child of the 80s, nearly everyone had bare boards then. He has mentioned himself that he has dropped a chord or two live and not often does Pino intonate above the 12th. I don't listen to Caron for fretless.
To me, lines are simple common sense...
Pino played a lot above the 12th in the 80’s.
Manring also plays unlined. But I agree with you that many of the great intonators play a lined board.
Pino played a lot above the 12th in the 80’s.
Show me. Not very much at all...
In New York Minute there are a few lines above the 12th for example. Have no time to go through all the songs again.
