Why are people obsessed with weight??

[Brad Johnson]

Brad, you are like 6'8" and built like a linebacker. Any bass would be light on you, bro!

But if you know something I don't, please tell me! I use a P Lyte solely because it's light, and I'd much rather play a regular Precision or Jazz. I can usually get by with a Precision's weight, but Jazz Basses are right out, and I'd really like another one. I've tried 6 or 7 different straps, one 5 inches wide, and the best I could do is make it not hurt as bad. The only thing that truly worked was getting a light bass. Man, the headaches and shoulder aches I used to get! Even with the Lyte, I still get them occasionally, but it's not nearly as bad now.

I'm 6'2" and built like a middle-aged overweight bassist. Much of what I've talked about I figured out when I was around 180 lb.


I figured out a long time ago that avoiding the damage in the first place is likely key. Early on I decided to wear my bass at the same height standing or seated. After gigging with my Big Swede and having that Fender strap cut into my shoulder, I figured there must be a better way. I know about discomfort. I also knew there were some great sounding heavier basses out there.

My first good strap was an unpadded Gibson leather strap that I bought with a used BC Rich Mockingbird bass. It was also the first bass I owned with Dunlop straploks installed so that was a great twofer experience-wise.

That strap had a suede underside and as a result no matter what bass I strapped on, it didn't move. Sweet. It was also stiff enough that it spread the weight across that horizontal shoulder muscle. Sweet again. When I got my Zon back in 1997 it came with an excellent Zon strap. That strap allowed me to play comfortably, even with my boat anchor first year G&L L2000E. During that time I mainly played clubs, typpically three or more sets. No problem.

I didn't suffer any hand/wrist/shoulder problems because I experimented and figured out early on what worked for me as far as wearing the bass. Worked on my technique to figure out how to play the bass and stamina was never an issue. I usually can end the night playing better than when I started.

So I guess my post may be geared more towards folks who haven't already dug into a comfort/discomfort zone. I know some seem to get offended when it seems like anyone is saying they may not have gone about things the "right way". IME there is no univeral right way, there is however stuff that's worked for me. Because of that foundation, I have no problem taking my probably 12+ lb. Brubaker Extreme 5 (and yes, all Brubakers are heavy... except for the lighter ones ) on any gig while guys who are younger and in supposedly far better shape might have a problem doing the same. Who's wrong in that case?

As always, if you're ever in the DC area we can get together and I can show you what I'm talking about. I typically don't even think about it, it's just something I do.

BTW I have a good friend who does club dates with Ash basses and he might be 150 lb. and in his late 40's.

 

[JimmyM]

I think that's my problem right there...prevention. I always had good technique and could play all night without any discomfort whatsoever. But I played heavy basses with those 1 3/4" seat belt straps for decades. I'm positive that all the digging into my shoulder is what did me in. But it never hurt until 4-5 years ago, so I never once gave it a second thought.

 

[mongo2]

Look, up in the sky...It's a bird...It's a plane...It's Superman.

Yes, it's Superman. Strange visitor from another planet who came to earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men.

Superman, who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel in his bare hands...

 

[Brad Johnson]

Sure sounds like it here.

How is this a mystery?
"If you actually spend the time learning to control such a bass (generally speaking), it can be a beautiful thing. It seems that many people don't even try because they really don't understand the concept. YMMV"

Well there's a big ol assumption there

Not really. All you've talked about is what works for you. And the assumption about living room playing.


This rhetorical question was directed to others, right?
"Seriously, how many times have you ever said ??. "gee, I just can't get this note to ring out long enough""


Are you asking that because you do understand why someone would want it?

Sure thing, I totaly get that. Probably a lot more than you would think . I'm an EXTREEMLY open minded kind of guy. but it sure is fun to sit back and watch you go off. So many chuckles over the years.


Sure is.

Go off or merely explain, it's all about your POV. I've tried to address your points fully. If that's going off, cool. The logic fits.

And who said legato had to be quiet? Why assume that?

 

[lowbass68]

Look, up in the sky...It's a bird...It's a plane...It's Superman.

Yes, it's Superman. Strange visitor from another planet who came to earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men.

Superman, who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel in his bare hands...

+1

 

[Brad Johnson]

I think that's my problem right there...prevention. I always had good technique and could play all night without any discomfort whatsoever. But I played heavy basses with those 1 3/4" seat belt straps for decades. I'm positive that all the digging into my shoulder is what did me in. But it never hurt until 4-5 years ago, so I never once gave it a second thought.

Bingo!

Yep, those standard straps straight up sucked... but back then blowing $30 on a good strap seemed extravagant, right? Plus you'd end up with silver medallions and turquoise stones, etc.

I don't remember how heavy my Hagstrom was, it was a Les Paul style bass and seemed to have it's entire weight focus on one area... my shoulder. I knew that couldn't be good. I made a switch before I let it get out of hand.

It does seem to be cumulative. I really wasn't looking forward when I made the adjustments I did. I am glad I made them.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Look, up in the sky...It's a bird...It's a plane...It's Superman.

Yes, it's Superman. Strange visitor from another planet who came to earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men.

Superman, who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel in his bare hands...

Nah, just a working musician who used his brain and learned from his mistakes. I can see why some might consider that paranormal.

 

[savit260]

How is this a mystery?
"If you actually spend the time learning to control such a bass (generally speaking), it can be a beautiful thing. It seems that many people don't even try because they really don't understand the concept. YMMV"

It seems to me that you were coming across like only you, and a select few in some inteligencia assosiation are the only ones who've figured this out. I'd say most all of us are familiar with that concept of letting a note ring untill we're done with it and on to the next. Not exaclty a mystery.

Not really. All you've talked about is what works for you. And the assumption about living room playing.

I asked how long do you really need a note to ring out? 30 Seconds? 30 minutes? Point is, if it will ring out that 30 seconds that's most likely a lot longer than anyone would practicaly need to hear a note ring. I'm sure there's the odd exception, but I'd guess 30 seconds of one ringing note in a song is not exactly the norm.

Actual question... Do you need a note to ring out longer than 30 seconds, which pretty much any standard solid body bass should be able to do with a set of rounds.

If so , where? I'd honestly like to hear a sound clip too. I'm genuinely interested.

Glad there's basses out there that do what you need though, and I mean that all kidding aside.

EDIT: Even 10 seconds would be a very long time wouldn't it?

 

[savit260]

And the assumption about living room playing.

Who made any assumptions about living room playing?

Here was what I said.

Yeah, I'll get plenty of sustain from old strings that don't get pounded into the ground from sweat and crud on stage.

Show strings, and "no sweat/low sweat/ easy play/living room/coffee shop type" gig strings are a whole different deal.

Translation, Heavy duty , high energy ,sweat filled gig strings don't last as long as "light duty" gigs for me.

Where's the assumption in that?

I'd think that would be pretty much true for most people as well regardless of how much their bass weighs.

 

[cnltb]

Everyday!

Good one !

 

[cnltb]

I'm pretty sure most people don't understand the relationship between sustain and attack. If you have a bass that sustains well not only can you play with a lighter touch, notes will ring longer even when you do. This comes in extremely handy for low volume legato playing among other things. It also makes, at least for me, playing longer periods of time much more effortless.

Sustain is all about maintaining an even response and that's useful even when playing quarter and half notes. You get a strong signal until you, not the bass, decide to stop the note. Lack of sustain lets the bass limit what you can do. If that's somehow a good thing...


And my main basses sustain even with far less than fresh strings. The main thing affected is treble response, not note duration.

So yes, most people might have no use for this. It all depends on the individual's needs and IME I know lots of people who really appreciate it. By the same token, many if not most people haven't experienced what I'm talking about and maintain the same misconceptions that only seem to make sense in conjuction with that lack of exposure.

And the answer to how do you stop the ringing is both simple and difficult it seems... you have to practice and learn how. Maybe that's why so many prefer non sustainy D) basses.

+1
a note that sustains well without beaking up is a very nice thing.
Not all basses do that tho.
You can always stop it when it rings on too long...

 

[spade2you]

+1
a note that sustains well without beaking up is a very nice thing.
Not all basses do that tho.
You can always stop it when it rings on too long...

Very much so. Some basses just have it, some don't.

I'm a big fan of the dynamics from a lighter touch. It makes it so much easier to accent notes without doing a whole lot more work.

 

[your idol]

i personally blame the media for giving us all image issues

 

[Brad Johnson]

Who made any assumptions about living room playing?

You brought up living room.

Here was what I said.



Translation, Heavy duty , high energy ,sweat filled gig strings don't last as long as "light duty" gigs for me.

Where's the assumption in that?

I'd think that would be pretty much true for most people as well regardless of how much their bass weighs.

You brought this up while responding to me. If it has nothing to do with you AND it has nothing to do with me, what was the point in mentioning it?


And as I mentioned, I still get great sustain with old strings... my treble response is what suffers. Not note duration.

 

[Brad Johnson]

+1
a note that sustains well without beaking up is a very nice thing.
Not all basses do that tho.
You can always stop it when it rings on too long...

We'll go over the secret handshake later.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Very much so. Some basses just have it, some don't.

I'm a big fan of the dynamics from a lighter touch. It makes it so much easier to accent notes without doing a whole lot more work.

And you have a much wider dynamic range at your disposal. IME of course. And within that range, all sorts of varying attacks you can use to play around with the envelope of the sound. Pluck hard and make it stop quickly. A little lighter and have it trail off after the initial attack but still ring. Lighter still and the notes can sound like they were generated like a keyboard vs. plucking. You basically have lots of "effects" at your disposal with no batteries required.

IME it's one of the factors that allows people to play fretted while sounding fretless. Among others things.

And by all means, folks... feel free to ignore any and everything I've said.

 

[savit260]

You brought up living room.



You brought this up while responding to me. If it has nothing to do with you AND it has nothing to do with me, what was the point in mentioning it?


And as I mentioned, I still get great sustain with old strings... my treble response is what suffers. Not note duration.

Point was, when I go easy on strings, I'll get plenty of life prolonging , glorious sustain as well (just like you do, again you don't need to be a member of a secret society to achieve this ) , however I don't have that kind of luck with strings when they get used under harsh conditions.

Why you would take that as some kind of attack/insult/offense etc. etc. on you is beyond my comprehension

Here's the Living Room comment in context YET AGAIN.

Yeah, I'll get plenty of sustain from old strings that don't get pounded into the ground from sweat and crud on stage.

Show strings, and "no sweat/low sweat/ easy play/living room/coffee shop type" gig strings are a whole different deal.

 

[asberrys]

How can anyone think sustain is a bad thing?
That is where a keyboard bass kicks (b)ass.
I also envy how a keyboard bass can bend notes lower than just do sharps.
Anyone else envy Jan Hammer's synth?
Sustain is kind of like power under the hood of your car.You won't need it very much but when you do there is no substitute

 

[Brad Johnson]

It seems to me that you were coming across like only you, and a select few in some inteligencia assosiation are the only ones who've figured this out. I'd say most all of us are familiar with that concept of letting a note ring untill we're done with it and on to the next. Not exaclty a mystery.

While that may be how you've decided to twist it, it's not what I actually said. "It seems that many people don't even try because they really don't understand the concept".

Many people don't. Do you disagree? For example, many people think the obvious "remedy" for a bass with good sustain is string mutes. There's nothing mysterious about that from my end, though it may be on theirs.

Again, in this case, you've decided a non-mystery on my part isn't a mystery. Most of us clearly don't know what I'm talking about, if they did AND it was still an issue...

I asked how long do you really need a note to ring out? 30 Seconds? 30 minutes? Point is, if it will ring out that 30 seconds that's most likely a lot longer than anyone would practicaly need to hear a note ring. I'm sure there's the odd exception, but I'd guess 30 seconds of one ringing note in a song is not exactly the norm.

And I told you that there are different uses for sustain besides simple note duration. the quality of the note while it's ringing is important to some people. You don't seem to see that as a factor and that's cool.

IOW it's not only about 30 seconds. That's your arbitrary benchmark, not mine

question... Do you need a note to ring out longer than 30 seconds, which pretty much any standard solid body bass should be able to do with a set of rounds.

If so , where? I'd honestly like to hear a sound clip too. I'm genuinely interested.

Glad there's basses out there that do what you need though, and I mean that all kidding aside.

EDIT: Even 10 seconds would be a very long time wouldn't it?

Seee my previous paragraph. It that still doesn't answer your question, sorry. I guess I'm not up to the task.

 

[SwamiRob]

Can't imagine that sounding quite as cool on a grand piano with the sustain pedal...

By the way you can always bend your neck forward if you need that low bend

As for the having masses of sustain thing I'm sure even the grimiest of old flats sustain for a while, but the point is that if a bass sustains WELL for a long period of time the shorter sustains are gonna probably carry more power then a setup that doesn't sustain for very long. I don't really see what this argument is over what with it being a matter of personal discretion and all...