Why are people obsessed with weight??

[spade2you]

Yes there are some balanced light weights and neck diving heavy weights without a doubt. The center of gravity is largely dependant on where the strap buttons are located along with other factors such as hardware, wood type, etc. I have never played an SG style that balanced well. But generally if you take two similar styled basses like a Jazz or P, heavier ones balance a little better IME.

But balance is only part of my issue with light weights. Part of my issue with light weight basses is that they don't stay put and they move around on me. Heavier basses anchor down and stay where I put them.

The perfect balance between weight, size and balance is my old Steinberger. And it stays where I put it even if I move around. The only think that I don't like about it is the narrower string spacing at the bridge compared to my J's and the high-fi sound.

The only correct answer is that there are so many factors too consider that there is no "right" answer for everyone. It all boils down to what you feel comfortale with and what works with your style.

Plus I have a different persective, I played tuba for many years and a bass like my Aria at 11 pounds is much lighter that a 35 to 45 pound sousaphone. And I have played 3 plus hours with that thing.

I have my doubts if Gibson understands balance on a bass.

Lighter bodies with a reasonable top horn often balance. Where a lot of Fender style basses have problems is using a light body and incredibly dense neck. While basswood and poplar are economical lighter body woods, most will still use Canadian rock maple for the neck, which is also economical but often quite heavy.

All around, an inline headstock adds more weight and changes the point of balance, too. A compact headstock can not only reduce overall weight, but also makes it easier to balance the bass as well.

 

[lowbass68]

I have my doubts if Gibson understands balance on a bass.

Lighter bodies with a reasonable top horn often balance. Where a lot of Fender style basses have problems is using a light body and incredibly dense neck. While basswood and poplar are economical lighter body woods, most will still use Canadian rock maple for the neck, which is also economical but often quite heavy.

All around, an inline headstock adds more weight and changes the point of balance, too. A compact headstock can not only reduce overall weight, but also makes it easier to balance the bass as well.

Heck, I didn't think Gibson even knew what a bass was. The only Gibson that I kind of liked was the Victory, and didn't much care for it either.
But like I said, so many factors to consider that there is no right answer. I like thick and chunky necks because they feel good to me, but the price is weight. Thin necks are uncomfortable and tend to cramp my hand after a couple hours. The main reason I don't like the Fender Geddy bass is the thinner neck. Plus I like to play raw wood which generally means heavier weight exotics. The necks I like govern the weight and thick necks require more lead in the @ss end of the bass. Strap buton placement will help to a degree, but moving the upper horn out too far means shifting where the bass hangs in relation to the player.
Been playing since around 1981 and have owned and gigged a lot of different basses. Owned at least 50 plus basses over the years and borrowed a bunch too. I hit every guitar shop I come across. Never found a light weight that accomidates all aspects of what I want in a bass. Close but not close enough.
Again, many factors to consider. If I could find a 1 pound bass I would be thrilled, but unless I can find a thick and chunky neck that is light weight, I will stick to the heavier basses.

 

[higgi]

I feel embarrassed to be seen with a heavy bass in public!

I broke my back and pelvis and a few other bones, so I pay attention to weight.

The answer to weight and balance problems has been my new Steinberger clone by Cort. It's wood so it sounds fairly traditional. It has no neck dive, and weights about 6lbs. It has a p bass pickup in the same place as a p bass, and the same string spacing, and a chunky neck. It's neck through so it has a little more sustain than I prefer, but you can't have everything

 

[asberrys]

I think a heavy bass with good sustain is necessary if one wants to emulate keyboard bass parts that can sustain for days.
I really like the first meshell 'ngdeocello album where she plays alot of notes way over the bar as I think someone would say.Sounds like a keyboard bass almost.
I know she used a couple of Jazzes for that record.

 

[Essthreetee]

Well both of my basses are 11 pounds. An old USA Peavey Forum and a Ibanez ATK...they are fine, as long as there are breaks in between sets...but when we play a 4 hour marathon...I hurt.

 

[Brad Johnson]

+1 here too.

Seriously, how many times have you ever said ?? . "gee, I just can't get this note to ring out long enough"

New strings would probably be an easier cure than all the aftermarket bridges, and heavy timbers in the world. (required IMO)


My stock P with fresh strings can manage to ring out WAY longer than is usefull in any way if I wanted it to, and it weighs less than 8 pounds.

I'm pretty sure most people don't understand the relationship between sustain and attack. If you have a bass that sustains well not only can you play with a lighter touch, notes will ring longer even when you do. This comes in extremely handy for low volume legato playing among other things. It also makes, at least for me, playing longer periods of time much more effortless.

Sustain is all about maintaining an even response and that's useful even when playing quarter and half notes. You get a strong signal until you, not the bass, decide to stop the note. Lack of sustain lets the bass limit what you can do. If that's somehow a good thing...



And my main basses sustain even with far less than fresh strings. The main thing affected is treble response, not note duration.

So yes, most people might have no use for this. It all depends on the individual's needs and IME I know lots of people who really appreciate it. By the same token, many if not most people haven't experienced what I'm talking about and maintain the same misconceptions that only seem to make sense in conjuction with that lack of exposure.

And the answer to how do you stop the ringing is both simple and difficult it seems... you have to practice and learn how. Maybe that's why so many prefer non sustainy D) basses.

Anyone in the MD/DC/VA area, contact me. I'll demo this in real life... and if you still think it makes no difference after that, cool.

 

[JimmyM]

Well if you want sustain, there's plenty of basses that will do it for you. And they'll do it at a lot lighter than 12 lbs. I just never found it all that desirable to sustain so much. I use rounds so obviously I like a little sustain, but there's a point when I hit a note that I want it to go away, and that's the one thing a sustainy bass doesn't do, and palm muting or sticking a sponge under it isn't the same.

 

[savit260]

I've never had any issues with any of my basses not having enough sustain, so I'm fine and dandy thanks.

Quiet leggato runs don't seem to be coming up short anywhere.

Are you saying a very well set up Jazz or Precision doesn't have enough sustain for you Brad?

Yeah, I'll get plenty of sustain from old strings that don't get pounded into the ground from sweat and crud on stage.

Show strings, and "no sweat/low sweat/ easy play/living room/coffee shop type" gig strings are a whole different deal.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Well if you want sustain, there's plenty of basses that will do it for you. And they'll do it at a lot lighter than 12 lbs.

I never said a heavy bass was required for sustain. I will say that I've never played a light bass that sounds the same overall as a some of the heavier basses I've preferred. That's why I preferred the heavier basses. Sound. Sustain is just one factor.

I just never found it all that desirable to sustain so much. I use rounds so obviously I like a little sustain, but there's a point when I hit a note that I want it to go away, and that's the one thing a sustainy bass doesn't do, and palm muting or sticking a sponge under it isn't the same.

Again, if this is what you think is required to stop a string, cool. IME it's not. And I'm guessing you missed my point about the amount of sustain.

Sustain is not just about letting a note ring until it stops on it's own. That seems to be the common misconception. It's also about having a note ring until you chose to stop it. There's a big difference. You'll have far more note to control and far more control over the envelope of the note. IME that's a good thing.

I can guarantee that I can play as staccato as just about anyone with a less sustainy bass. Hint: You have two hands to mute with, not just palm muting or sponges under strings.


Granted, if you're a Rocco clone this will likely be a moot point ( but IME a bass that sustains well can be very handy, even when playing something like "Under the Boardwalk". If you actually spend the time learning to control such a bass (generally speaking), it can be a beautiful thing. It seems that many people don't even try because they really don't understand the concept. YMMV

 

[Brad Johnson]

I've never had any issues with any of my basses not having enough sustain, so I'm fine and dandy thanks.

Quiet leggato runs don't seem to be coming up short anywhere.

Are you saying a very well set up Jazz or Precision doesn't have enough sustain for you Brad?

Yeah, I'll get plenty of sustain from old strings that don't get pounded into the ground from sweat and crud on stage.

Show strings, and "no sweat/low sweat/ easy play/living room/coffee shop type" gig strings are a whole different deal.

I play whatever bass I'm playing

By that I mean I find out what works with whatever particular bass is in my hands and I run with it. All of my Jazz style basses are well setup ( I set them up to my liking) and they do what they do. They do not sustain like my main basses. So no, they don't have enough if that (sustain like my main basses) is what I wanted at that moment. I play them accordingly and consider it the nature of the beast.

I seem to spend a lot of time explaining how and where I play. Because my hands stay very dry and I use very controlled technique, I don't have to change strings often. When I mention light touch many assume that's ALL I do. It's relative. It's fun when people actually see me play live because it can be difficult to reconcile how I sound vs. how much effort it looks like I'm putting into getting that sound. I don't sound like a light player.

I do what I do wherever I play, be it a 100 or 800 seat church, Blues Alley, an open mic that seats 50, outdoors for a few thousand or Constitution Hall. The venue has no effect on how I play.

 

[savit260]

I never said a heavy bass was required for sustain. I will say that I've never played a light bass that sounds the same overall as a some of the heavier basses I've preferred. That's why I preferred the heavier basses. Sound. Sustain is just one factor.



Again, if this is what you think is required to stop a string, cool. IME it's not. And I'm guessing you missed my point about the amount of sustain.

Sustain is not just about letting a note ring until it stops on it's own. That seems to be the common misconception. It's also about having a note ring until you chose to stop it. There's a big difference. You'll have far more note to control and far more control over the envelope of the note. IME that's a good thing.

I can guarantee that I can play as staccato as just about anyone with a less sustainy bass. Hint: You have two hands to mute with, not just palm muting or sponges under strings.


Granted, if you're a Rocco clone this will likely be a moot point ( but IME a bass that sustains well can be very handy, even when playing something like "Under the Boardwalk". If you actually spend the time learning to control such a bass (generally speaking), it can be a beautiful thing. It seems that many people don't even try because they really don't understand the concept. YMMV

I'm pretty sure I've never run out of note with any of my P's. Yup, they ring out 'till I don't want them to anymore. Do you really think there's some kind of mystery to this? Doesn't make any difference if it rings out for 30 seconds or 30 minutes. Either way , there's all you need right there.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The idea that people who don't mind playing heavy basses haven't played long gigs is pretty funny. It couldn't be that they've figured out a way to do it comfortably, right?


The coolest thing about this site is that it can be very educational... if you keep your mind open.

 

[JimmyM]

As someone who has played "Boardwalk" 50 times a year for the last 15 years on both sustainy and non-sustainy basses, I greatly prefer it on a non-sustainy bass. I actually prefer it the most on my Jay Turser Beatle bass copy, which has zero sustain.

And yes, if you play staccato and nothing but, the sustain level of a bass is moot. I'm sure you can play staccato bass lines on a sustainy bass with the best of 'em. I used to, too. Still do occasionally. Sustain won't affect that. But they're just not my thing. I really don't care if I have control over the sustain myself or not. I can count on one hand the amount of times I needed a bass to sustain more than your average Fender with rounds.

But if I ever need it, I have a couple neck-thrus that will sustain a goodly amount, so I'm covered. Believe it or not, I totally understand the concept you're espousing. I'm just saying it doesn't interest me. What can I tell ya?

 

[savit260]

I seem to spend a lot of time explaining how and where I play. Because my hands stay very dry and I use very controlled technique, I don't have to change strings often. When I mention light touch many assume that's ALL I do. It's relative. It's fun when people actually see me play live because it can be difficult to reconcile how I sound vs. how much effort it looks like I'm putting into getting that sound. I don't sound like a light player.

I do what I do wherever I play, be it a 100 or 800 seat church, Blues Alley, an open mic that seats 50, outdoors for a few thousand or Constitution Hall. The venue has no effect on how I play.

I'd expect to get at least a year of a set of strings playing in such an enviornment.

 

[JimmyM]

The idea that people who don't mind playing heavy basses haven't played long gigs is pretty funny. It couldn't be that they've figured out a way to do it comfortably, right?

Brad, you are like 6'8" and built like a linebacker. Any bass would be light on you, bro!

But if you know something I don't, please tell me! I use a P Lyte solely because it's light, and I'd much rather play a regular Precision or Jazz. I can usually get by with a Precision's weight, but Jazz Basses are right out, and I'd really like another one. I've tried 6 or 7 different straps, one 5 inches wide, and the best I could do is make it not hurt as bad. The only thing that truly worked was getting a light bass. Man, the headaches and shoulder aches I used to get! Even with the Lyte, I still get them occasionally, but it's not nearly as bad now.

 

[mongo2]

The sustain on my 4-13 Mustang is almost too much. I find I have to damp it more than any of my other basses, but it's nice to have that sustain available if I want it.

 

[lbanks]

You new here?

Everyday!

 

[Brad Johnson]

I'm pretty sure I've never run out of note with any of my P's. Yup, they ring out 'till I don't want them to anymore. Do you really think there's some kind of mystery to this? Doesn't make any difference if it rings out for 30 seconds or 30 minutes. Either way , there's all you need right there.

Am I somehow intimating that there's some sort of mystery? I don't understand the question.


I think I've explained my position in a clear fashion, not sure what else I can do at this point.

We clearly don't all play the same way. What is typical in tangents like this is a lack of empathy from one side towards the other. I don't care for many things but that doesn't keep me from understanding why others might. While you apparently have no need to do what I'm talking about, the basic point is that someone like me does. So understanding that requirement would allow you to understand why one thing might be preferable over another... to someone other than you.

That's all. I'm not saying anyone SHOULD or MUST spend any time doing anything other than what they want to do. I am saying that there are all sorts of things that CAN make a difference and for many, exploring those differences is a big part of the appeal of playing a musical insrument.

That's all.

 

[savit260]

Am I somehow intimating that there's some sort of mystery? I don't understand the question.

Sure sounds like it here.

If you actually spend the time learning to control such a bass (generally speaking), it can be a beautiful thing. It seems that many people don't even try because they really don't understand the concept. YMMV

I think I've explained my position in a clear fashion, not sure what else I can do at this point.

We clearly don't all play the same way. What is typical in tangents like this is a lack of empathy from one side towards the other. I don't care for many things but that doesn't keep me from understanding why others might. While you apparently have no need to do what I'm talking about, the basic point is that someone like me does.

Well there's a big ol assumption there

So understanding that requirement would allow you to understand why one thing might be preferable over another... to someone other than you.

Sure thing, I totaly get that. Probably a lot more than you would think . I'm an EXTREEMLY open minded kind of guy. but it sure is fun to sit back and watch you go off. So many chuckles over the years.

That's all. I'm not saying anyone SHOULD or MUST spend any time doing anything other than what they want to do. I am saying that there are all sorts of things that CAN make a difference and for many, exploring those differences is a big part of the appeal of playing a musical insrument.

That's all.

Sure is.

 

[Taxt]

go play a 6 string Warwick and get back to me on weight