Why are Poweramps not the standard?

[Hamish MacCleod]

Why would people want their amp to be multiple parts rather than one?

Modularity=> one pre/pedalboard various power amps

Why would people want their amp to be a pedal?

Small, fits in a gig bag

With the price of amps and the price of preamps costing more than a integrated unit, why would people want to pay more?

Nobody wants to pay more- the big retailers [mortar and online] run discounts all the time, so no one pays more if they shop around.

Why would most people want the complexity of trying to match the preamp to the power amp and deal with the extra gain staging and input sensitivity matching instead of a one piece unit that's matched from the start?

Same reason some people like to swap engines in cars, because they can...or they are looking for something you can't get any other way.

In my case I already owned a power amp, added a vtrm... boom! 3000w with a B15-ish sound, it cuts through.
Play whatever you like... I personally don't care for pedalboards but if a guy wants to run 15+ pedals good for him. Peace.
Rondo

 

[rufus.K]

Just a FYI: API created the 500 Series.

No, it wasn't API either, it was Aphex.
I had the first 500 series lunchbox. Aphex 4b-1 if memory serves, four cx-1 compressors, and an eq1-f eq. Got a Mint for them on fleaBay too.

 

[rufus.K]

There they are

 

[Jazz Ad]

Am I missing something here?

Yes, you missed active cabs.
Use whatever preamp you want and don't worry about power.

 

[andreiscv]

Convenience, size, weight, and ultra portability.

 

[ashtray]

Besides the added steps of hooking up the preamp to power amp, there's also the setup of the two units (setting HPF, gain levels, jumping the signal to both channels, etc), and then you have a serious concern about wattage. Power amps are sold from "a bunch of power" to "a tower of power" - and with so many threads here about blowing speakers, and questions about ohms and what cabinets can be hooked up and why is there noise when I do this and that - a powered head approach is the easiest for most users. (and people still have problems)

That's why a separate pre and power amp are not "the standard". But they are certainly an option if you want to go that route - and a lot of us do!

That said, my Aguilar AG500 does everything I need in one package (shoot - its even a dual channel with overdrive and compression so no need for pedals!). I have a power amp (2 actually) but find myself just using the Aguilar 99% of the time.

 

[monsterthompson]

Why not go the way of the Barefaced FR800? 800w class D power amp built into the cab. Now all you need is a pre. Even less gear to pack. No questioning if your amp and speaker cab are compatible.

 

[Jeff Scott]

No, it wasn't API either, it was Aphex.

Which was based on API 500 series modules. Aphex was the first to successfully string them together in a portable box, but were it not for the API modules made for the great API consoles in the '70s there may never have been a lunchbox format system in the first place.

 

[Jeff Scott]

The Radials are the only ones I can afford

I'm with you, there. Most likely though I would just get a Tonecraft 363.

 

[fdeck]

Soon all power amps will come with a DSP. It's like all TVs now come with smart apps. It cost nothing really to include them but it makes them so much more useful.

Great, now my bass amp is going to spy on me.

 

[John D Harris]

It is a great thing & terrible thing to have so many awesome options.
Great for the economy, the MI companies, & talkbass; terrible for my checking account!

 

[tom-g]

Besides the added steps of hooking up the preamp to power amp, there's also the setup of the two units (setting HPF, gain levels, jumping the signal to both channels, etc), and then you have a serious concern about wattage. Power amps are sold from "a bunch of power" to "a tower of power" - and with so many threads here about blowing speakers, and questions about ohms and what cabinets can be hooked up and why is there noise when I do this and that - a powered head approach is the easiest for most users. (and people still have problems)

That's why a separate pre and power amp are not "the standard". But they are certainly an option if you want to go that route - and a lot of us do!

That said, my Aguilar AG500 does everything I need in one package (shoot - its even a dual channel with overdrive and compression so no need for pedals!). I have a power amp (2 actually) but find myself just using the Aguilar 99% of the time.

Those added steps only need to be done once. At a gig I connect the speaker and plug in my bass - done. Nothing harder than with a bass head. EQing remains the same for both.

 

[Nev375]

Things break, and tastes/needs change over time.

I was pefectly happy with my 200w Carvin amp at one point. (side note: Stuart Hamm used the same model back in the day) I loved the tone, but I needed more power. With an all in one amp head, there may not be a more powerful version of the same head, or it may not be produced anymore like mine. I could not find a good used amp in my budget that did it for me. So I got a Stewart power amp for cheap and ran an effects out into it.

Now I had to carry a power amp and a broken amp with me everywhere. That got old fast. So I searched for a preamp solution. Eventually I found a Peavey Max bass preamp and I settled with it, but I didn't really like it. With all those knobs and separate tube/SS channels blendable you would think finding a great tone was easy. False. It was wayyy harder. But I did discover I liked the tube side better!

Eventually I got my hands on a Kern tube preamp. And holy cow does that thing sound good no matter what you put through it.

All this time effect units came and went. I had pedals, got tired of the spaghetti and got an ART multiFX, got tired of the complexity, got individual rack units, got tired of the weight, went through a "no fx" phase, got a 1 space tube spring reverb unit with a magic eye tube. (that unit was amazing) but it ran on European power and needed a converter in the back of the rack. ..Then it broke.. Went back through a pedal phase, got tired of the spaghetti (again), Then my back got old and started looking for small lightweight things.

...In a rack (Hows that for mission impossible?)

Enter the SWR amplite. Half the size and a fraction of the weight of my Stewart. That brought me down to 2 spaces and I had a half rack left to play wth. I filled it with a DBX compressor at one point, but I missed my effects so I got an old BOSS SE-70 for that. Perfectly happy except for the distortion settings, so I have a Fender Sublime for dirt and a custom Purple Mission expression pedal for the rack head. That's it! 2 big honkin pedals (Which I don't use often) a multifx with tuner, metronome and everything else, a KILLER tube preamp, and a small class D power amp in a 2 space shallow rack. (no bigger or heavier than many amp heads, no harder to set up) Plus I have my old rack gear to fall back on if anything breaks.

Modularity is awesome because it evolves. I think I'm doing just fine with my rig! GAS is rare.

 

[DwaynieAD]

Cuz my Gk sounds perfect

 

[J.Wolf]

I am kinda surprised there arent more small/class D power amp options, but I get that people looking for these solutions are in the minority, as there is no shortage of class D heads that are "good enough for most".

What I am surprised by is guys throwing crazy money (cough cough minnie) at a class D power amp that uses a 250ASX Ice module (same on used in the roughly 800w GK, Markbass, Tecamp heads). If you're going to spend 800 bucks on a power amp employing that powerplant, then I'd file that squarely under a waste of good money.

I can definitely get behind Jules' 700 power amp (Hypex Module) and RAD's 1000w ICE module amps, as they offer performance on par with larger 'traditional power supply' amps. I cant speak to the SWR power amp, as I havent heard one.

I bought one of these from Randy (Radbass) to use with my sonic farm DI and it BLOWS the doors off the power section in my Puma 900 in every discernable way. I just cant imagine paying even more for a Minnie or similar, given their performance.

 

[gregmon79]

I can only speak for myself, but the main reason I dont want a setup like youre describing, its there isnt enough tone shaping. Youd get all your tone shaping from one preamp. While that would totally work and is a great way to go, I tend to like a lot of tone shaping.

My amp is almost a power amp anyway, its an Electric Amp power unit. It has a preamp too but there is only controls for bass, presence and volume. It actually sounds awesome when I plug the bass straight into the amp. But I like more. So I have a couple preamps and tone shapers on my board that I use to sculpt. For me, in my band, its perfect. And even my bandmates love the way my tone sounds since I made the amp switch. I figure if even the whole band can tell a remarkable, awesome, difference, that is a great thing. Because we the bassists are usually the only ones who hear it. Some would say I use too much, but again, it works for me.

I think too that the way amps are nowadays, you dont need a pre or power in separate units, you can have super powerful amp the size of CB radio that fits in your gig bag. Why would you want all that other stuff if you have that?! Well, Im in the other camp. While having an amp like that and barely carrying anything with you is enticing, I found that a real tube amp compared to any SS amp Ive tried doesnt compare. The tube amp is going to win out every time. Even with the mainteince I need to keep up on with tubes. The tones are just too damn awesome

 

[Deadsound]

because it's (1) more complicated, (2) not traditional, and most importantly, (3) not what the big retailers are trying to sell to the masses

I think a lot about power amp set ups as there are advantages. A DSP power amp may yet get me with built in L/HPF, but for now I decided a micro amp head is a better solution because they are plenty cheap and light, and even if just using the effects return, you've got a backup preamp already on board. Now when I decide I need more than 800 watts, that's a different story...

 

[JAKBOUND]

I am kinda surprised there arent more small/class D power amp options, but I get that people looking for these solutions are in the minority, as there is no shortage of class D heads that are "good enough for most".

What I am surprised by is guys throwing crazy money (cough cough minnie) at a class D power amp that uses a 250ASX Ice module (same on used in the roughly 800w GK, Markbass, Tecamp heads). If you're going to spend 800 bucks on a power amp employing that powerplant, then I'd file that squarely under a waste of good money.

I can definitely get behind Jules' 700 power amp (Hypex Module) and RAD's 1000w ICE module amps, as they offer performance on par with larger 'traditional power supply' amps. I cant speak to the SWR power amp, as I havent heard one.

I bought one of these from Randy (Radbass) to use with my sonic farm DI and it BLOWS the doors off the power section in my Puma 900 in every discernable way. I just cant imagine paying even more for a Minnie or similar, given their performance.

View attachment 733981

Is the RAD amp a commercial product? (Available for Joe Blow to order)
As for why, doubling gigs. One preamp for electric one for upright, switchable. Otherwise you get the scenario of the break between tunes as the bassist adjusts the amp controls after swapping basses. BL taps feet. Audience looses interest, mood killed, dance floor clears, drink sales affected. Band reputation suffers. I get irritated as a punter at gigs as the guitarists messes with the pedalboard interminably between tunes. Roots type gigs are my preference, one amp ones guitar one cord.
SM 9.2 max does the job but I would prefer a different electric set up with my cab (a little too hifi).

 

[J.Wolf]

Is the RAD amp a commercial product? (Available for Joe Blow to order)
As for why, doubling gigs. One preamp for electric one for upright, switchable. Otherwise you get the scenario of the break between tunes as the bassist adjusts the amp controls after swapping basses. BL taps feet. Audience looses interest, mood killed, dance floor clears, drink sales affected. Band reputation suffers. I get irritated as a punter at gigs as the guitarists messes with the pedalboard interminably between tunes. Roots type gigs are my preference, one amp ones guitar one cord.
SM 9.2 max does the job but I would prefer a different electric set up with my cab (a little too hifi).

Yes, you can PM him through TB for details.

I'm a big fan of having a pedal board with all of the tone shaping (and effect) needs, and then a very simple and effective poweramp (and in my case) a Tube DI after the pedalboard, for preamplification.

 

[two fingers]

Not that Mark Bass would ever do it. But what if they had sold the liscense for that concept for other amp companies to use? I could picture owning modules from Aguilar, Mesa, and Ampeg.

This. The lunchbox approach. That would be awesome to be able to build an amp lunchbox with any pre I wanted.

(For those who are unfamiliar Google studio lunchbox preamp. You can get several really nice preamps and compressors among other items that all fit into one modular unit.)