Why are TBers so against drop or detuning?

[rappa29]

Not sure if it's been stated already, too lazy to read through 7 pages...but the real question is...

Why care that TBers are so against detuning\drop tuning?

Play what you like. Like what you play.

 

[chump stain]

Again, I went back and listened to the song again because I figured there must be something I'm missing. I guess I'm missing the difficulty in playing this line on a 5 without detuning



Is this the song? Yes it's easier with an open Eb but it's far from difficult IMO on any of my fives. And if it doesn't sound good on a particlular five, all fives aren't created equal. And I use a .120 or .125 B because it's closer tonally to my E strings. I can play this line on the low B string alone OR a combination of the Eb on the low B (and let that note continue) and the rest on the E. So I can switch it up vs. having only one position that I have to play it in. It can be less repetitive on a five.


I don't have anything approaching carpel tunnel, that can be a product of technique just as easily as ergonomics.

BTW if anyone chooses to read any of this as "berating", there's nothing I can do about that. That's on you.

Yeah, it's personal preferance. I don't take offence, maybe the OP. But, bass is a tool, used to achieve a goal, if you're reaching that goal with the tools you have, great. I like drop tuning myself, just because I like the softer tension on the strings, and for the reasons stated (extended range 4 string). It's comfortable for me, and works great for what I'm doing.

Now, if I was playing a worship set, and reading off of a chart, I would prefer a standard tuned 5 string.

 

[Rob Lewis]

Good job this isn't "TalkPiano": drop tuning would be a real challenge!

 

[Jazz Ad]

No piano but keyboard players detune all the time.
4-5 string/detuning are not related issues.

 

[TL5]

The fingerings and patterns of our songs make playing them on a standard 5er not possible. The parts were written for drop C tuned guitars, and the bass part is usually the exact same.

Couldn't you simply raise the tuning a half step on a standard five?
Or raise the B string a half step to get your open C on a five-string?

 

[sonic assassin]

whats really going on here is that there are a pack of old school rock, blues, jazz etc players arguing a point that is relevant in punk, hardcore, metalcore etc. its a genre thing. if you've ever played mustang sally in your life, you wont understand this thread.

ill use my band as an example.

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all songs in Drop C#. bass tuned accordingly. my bassist is a bit of a minimalist, and sometimes has to sing over these, but on record, we get him to play the parts right instead of stage friendly. anyone vehemently against drop and down tuning, try to play this stuff in standard. try to follow guitars note for note in standard.

you can, im sure. i can. but its awkward. and it sounds like crap.

and regarding Eb. id NEVER try to play any song in Eb on my standard tuned 5 unless it was quarter notes the entire song. if the bass part was any good, id have to tune to the song. alice in chains is a good example.

 

[Rob Lewis]

No piano but keyboard players detune all the time.
4-5 string/detuning are not related issues.

Missed the point: sit behind a piano and you've got what you've got to work with. And that "limitation" is a positive thing in many ways. The drop tuning caper is to make things easier/possible that would be a challenge in a standard tuning.

 

[edpal]

whats really going on here is that there are a pack of old school rock, blues, jazz etc players arguing a point that is relevant in punk, hardcore, metalcore etc. its a genre thing. if you've ever played mustang sally in your life, you wont understand this thread.

It didn't start out as a drop tuning vs. no drop tuning thread. OP was mainly complaining that people suggest a 5 to him and that he thought 5ers were smug.
I think the old school and new school people of most genres understand that open string notes sound slightly different than the same note fretted(due to decay, attack,string tension). And they understand that and open tuning is going to make some parts easier to play. Conversely, a 5 stringer makes some parts easier/possible to play and for many songs the marginal difference between an open and fretted note is really too marginal. And for those who play double/triple stops it usually sounds much better fretting all notes even if an open string is available, as the attack and decay will be more consistent between all notes.

 

[edpal]

"Would?" by Alice in Chains is played in Eb, try playing that on your 4th fret of you 5 stringer's B. I'll be much happier, and without carpel tunnel using my 4 string, dropped a half step.

I like that song (despite being an old schooler), but the bass part is so simple and rudimentary I can't imagine it taxing a decent bass player of any number of strings, in any tuning. Maybe if you only have one fretting finger. The sound combind with the tempo would be pretty easy to emulate on a fretted five with a little compression.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yeah, it's personal preferance. I don't take offence, maybe the OP. But, bass is a tool, used to achieve a goal, if you're reaching that goal with the tools you have, great. I like drop tuning myself, just because I like the softer tension on the strings, and for the reasons stated (extended range 4 string). It's comfortable for me, and works great for what I'm doing.

Now, if I was playing a worship set, and reading off of a chart, I would prefer a standard tuned 5 string.

Most worship sets I've done didn't have charts. That is a good point though... most likely detuners aren't reading parts. I've asked that of many whom I know detune and they play by position and not the actual notes... as if the bass is tuned normally.

I play with low action and with that I find it desirable to have enough tension to not make flop an issue.

 

[Rob Lewis]

I play keyboards as well as bass and I never use the transpose button-not 'cos I am any kind of purist but I would rather just work a part out properly. There's also a whole world of grief out there if you forget to retune for another piece.

 

[MooseLumps]

Buy a 6 string.

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FLAME ON!!

 

[Febs]

and regarding Eb. id NEVER try to play any song in Eb on my standard tuned 5 unless it was quarter notes the entire song. if the bass part was any good, id have to tune to the song. alice in chains is a good example.

Here's a song in Eb. Do you think this bass line is any good?



I recognize that we're comparing different styles, but IMHO, the Bernadette bass line is substantially more challenging than the Alice in Chains bass line you're pointing to as an example of a song in Eb that requires a non-standard tuning.

 

[Ric5]

Not sure if it's been stated already, too lazy to read through 7 pages...but the real question is...

Why care that TBers are so against detuning\drop tuning?

Play what you like. Like what you play.

+1000!!!!!

 

[jarrhead]

Here's two bass lines that are probably impossible or way too difficult to play without dropping.

First, this song is in C# Standard, and without it harmonics would not sound the same.



The bass line becomes difficult to play in standard just 12 seconds in. Impossible to play and get the same sound, anyways (you would have to tap or use different strings in standard) And extremely difficult or impossible from 18 seconds in on.

 

[edpal]

Here's two bass lines that are probably impossible or way too difficult to play without dropping.

First, this song is in C# Standard, and without it harmonics would not sound the same.



The bass line becomes difficult to play in standard just 12 seconds in. Impossible to play and get the same sound, anyways (you would have to tap or use different strings in standard) And extremely difficult or impossible from 18 seconds in on.

I'm totally confused by these "examples" - the first one - the guy is playing a 5 string, and never hits an open string - spends some time around 4 1/2 minutes and onward diving for 1-2 fret. A 1/2 step either way wouldn't change that song.

The second example - sorry, but that really sounds like an electronic detuner...if you have one(as I do) you'd recognize the blub-blub.

We are way off the OP - basically is a 5 something unnecessary, superflous and just something some people want to feel smug about? Too many pro players are using ERBs to think it is just a elitist toy. De-tuning for the studio to get intyo a perfect range is quite understandable.

I thought the example someone brought up of the Four Tops song "Bernadette" was one of the few examples that made a good case for de-tuning - I've played that song many a time and yes, you would go nuts trying to play it fluidly without the open strings. But would most people notice if you raised it to E? De-tuning has it's place I'm thinking, but so does a 5 stringer for a large amount of playing. If "Bernadette" had been played a 1/2 step higher the point would be moot - the bassist could have had a 4 or a 5 in his hands and nothing would be different... as long as he didn't use the low B to hit the E.

I love the aritcle on Fender basses in the most recent Bass PLayer mag - Steve Bailey is shown with a Fender P-bass to one side(Photoshopped in), but what is on his lap? A 6 stringer. LOLOLOLOLOL!

 

[Brad Johnson]

Here's two bass lines that are probably impossible or way too difficult to play without dropping.

First, this song is in C# Standard, and without it harmonics would not sound the same.



The bass line becomes difficult to play in standard just 12 seconds in. Impossible to play and get the same sound, anyways (you would have to tap or use different strings in standard) And extremely difficult or impossible from 18 seconds in on.

You seriously think that would be impossible to play and get the same sound? if so I won't try to convince you otherwise.

It is interesting how often some who detune use the word "impossible". I'm not quite catching what was difficult 12 seconds in. I'm genuinely curious... why would the second song be impossible to play? Why couldn't the open string notes be fretted instead?

 

[caeman]

Do you de-tuners de-tune for sake of optimizing open strings like Banjo players do? Banjo tunings are all over the map, all in an effort to enhance the sound of a song through open string resonance.

 

[edpal]

Now, if I was playing a worship set, and reading off of a chart, I would prefer a standard tuned 5 string.

I never have had a chart for any worship set, ever. I build my part from the ground up, regardless of what key the guitarists and singers decide is best for them. I was the bassist for a touring Alice Cooper tribute band in the 80s and had to play other people's lines note4note...guess that gave me an avertion to mirroring someone else's part. Unless it is really memorable and recognizable, like the one really good example that been given,"Bernadette" by the Four Tops. That part made the song.

 

[sonic assassin]

Here's a song in Eb. Do you think this bass line is any good?



I recognize that we're comparing different styles, but IMHO, the Bernadette bass line is substantially more challenging than the Alice in Chains bass line you're pointing to as an example of a song in Eb that requires a non-standard tuning.

im not going to sit down and learn it, but if there are a lot of open strings involved, or it harps on a low Eb, then yes, id likely tune down.

"would?" uses that open Eb in the intro. thats much less fun to do on all fretted notes. and being a guitarist, its a lot easier to pick out the notes by referring to what chord the guitar is on. if the guitar is tuned down, im not trying to transpose in my head the whole time im trying to learn a song.

sometimes i know i can get away with it. others, id rather just retune. honestly, how long does it take? even by ear.. entire seconds