Why aren’t active basses powered by the cable?

[el murdoque]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Alembic did more or less invent the whole 'active components inside a bass' business and when they did, the bass was fed from an outside box through a special cable - but they moved on to batteries inside the basses somewhere down the line.

So in a manner of speaking, feeding the bass from an outside source is not a step forward, but backwards.

 

[Deleted member 368008]

"This is why older original Series Alembics only play the neck pickup when you are plugged in with a regular guitar cord. Perhaps Ron was trying to do a favor for future Series buyers - when you try it out in the store, you can tell the salesman "Hey, you want $2000 for a bass with only one working pickup?" and end up getting it cheap. "

They had the most complicated output jack design ever to take outside phantom power. As I said before, and others too, not all active designs are designed the same.

Back then, when all this stuff was originally designed, the only rechargeable batteries were NiCads. These are the ones that suffer from "memory" so you really need to charge them fully, then discharge them fully and repeat or you rapidly lose battery life. Nowadays there are NiMH and lithium secondary batteries that don't have memory problems but require a power monitoring chip in the battery pack to charge properly.

Battery life was *very* short on the Alembic Series, as the onboard electronics were designed for sound rather than to save power. Your typical EMG-equipped instrument can easily get more than 1000 hours from a single alkaline 9V. With the Series, I think you're doing really well if you get 40 hrs of playing time on two batteries on Alembic.

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From EMG site (horses mouth):
The typical EMG Pickup requires about 80 Micro-amps of current. For a battery rated at 500 MilliAmp Hours it translates like this:
1 MilliAmp = 1000 MicroAmps
1000 MicroAmps / 80 MicroAmps = 12.5 times
12.5 * 500maH = 6250 maH
6250 / 2 (battery cutoff voltage 4.5V) = 3125 Hours per pickup
The Lithium Cell will usually deliver about twice as many hours as the Alkaline cell, but the cost is higher.

Thus: 3125x2 = 6250 hours. One 9 volt lithium cell battery. Ok, let's install another one and get.. yes you guessed it right..pararell wiring connection:

6250x2 = 12500 hours

my 2 lithium 9 volt batteries lasted 9 years. I can't recall how many times I left the cable in, for days on end. I did only have that one bass for like 4-5 years and played it daily. Then I got another bass too (passive). But this one was the workhorse, even after that. 12500 hours is almost 1.5 years of continuous plugged in and playing. I don't think I've played that much bass even in total.

 

[micguy]

On the subject of cables. I know there are millions of bass guitars and amp's out there but, I have wondered why any new ones are not manufactored with a speakon type jack for more secure connections from bass to amp

Do you want a cable that’s that firmly attached to your amp head? When you reach the limit of cable length, there’s an elegance to a system that unplugs itself, rather than pulling the amp off the cabinet (onto the floor).

 

[Cave Puppy]

Wouldn't he have had a roadie to deal with that stuff?

Yeah … my thought as well. Fire the roadie!

 

[J Wilson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Alembic did more or less invent the whole 'active components inside a bass' business and when they did, the bass was fed from an outside box through a special cable - but they moved on to batteries inside the basses somewhere down the line.

So in a manner of speaking, feeding the bass from an outside source is not a step forward, but backwards.

Ron Wickersham and Alembic were working under an imprimatur from Owsley Stanley to improve the Dead's sound, both live and recorded, as Alembic covered all those aspects: The instruments, the PA (the famous 'Wall of Sound') and Alembic recorded several of the early records. Ron was a military trained former Ampex design engineer, and for 'Europe 72' they carried a 24 track recording board and Ampex 2" recorders around the tour.

He found that the Dead's guitar and bass pickups lacked a lot of frequency response, and found that with far fewer turns, frequency response improved dramatically but . . . . not enough wire/coil/output to drive conventional amp front ends. This is where the onboard electronics came in to bring the output up to normal levels, with preamps added internally to do this. This was indeed the genesis of low impedance pickups with a preamp, 'active' electronics, just one more thing that Ron and Alembic pioneered.

So on Alembic instruments with the Series pickup sets, the DS5 power boxes do two things: With AC power, the headroom is far greater than any other method, and the frequency response and headroom is several orders of magnitude past conventional pickup arrangements, but then the rub is it requires the 5-pin cable, which can complicate things. This is why these axes have a brutally clean tone, they're virtually impossible to distort without pedals. Great for bass, not so hot for guitars if that's what you're after.

These instruments include an 'emergency' double 9v battery arrangement to get you through a gig should the power box or cable fail, but these use comparatively a lot of power and you'll be lucky to get much more than 5 or 6 hours out of new batteries.

Their later instruments (they lack that smaller 'middle' pick up, actually a hum canceller for the single coil Series pickups) are a bit more conventional, don't require the 5-pin cable, use a regular mono guitar cable and a single 9v battery, and battery life is comparable to any other bass out there. I'd change mine at New Years and 4th of July and never had a problem, ever, on my Spoiler Five and Elan Five.

Alembics are a completely different world in some ways. I always say they're not for everyone, but if you 'get it', there is nothing, but nothing like an Alembic.

 

[BeMoreFrench]

1: Because you will need to carry that special cable everywhere, along with a backup. Easier to carry a spare 9V battery

2: Say goodbye to playing wireless

3: 9V batteries really aren't a hassle

For pro touring bassists, sidemen always on the road, with big production/touring management companies, it is actually a hassle: they simply cannot deal with the fatality of having a bad battery only once in a while, as in that kind of situation EVERYTHING has to be 99 to 100% reliable or your reputation gets down, a 9V battery problem is not tolerated.

For ex pros like me who were doing those big stages or festivals only once in a while, as I was mostly playing jazz and blues, no real problem to keep everything powered by a 9V battery of course.

That's why the ZAM is mostly used by big names here in France, or pro sidemen doing at least 200 concerts/year.

 

[BeMoreFrench]

Ron Wickersham and Alembic were working under an imprimatur from Owsley Stanley to improve the Dead's sound, both live and recorded, as Alembic covered all those aspects: The instruments, the PA (the famous 'Wall of Sound') and Alembic recorded several of the early records. Ron was a military trained former Ampex design engineer, and for 'Europe 72' they carried a 24 track recording board and Ampex 2" recorders around the tour.

He found that the Dead's guitar and bass pickups lacked a lot of frequency response, and found that with far fewer turns, frequency response improved dramatically but . . . . not enough wire/coil/output to drive conventional amp front ends. This is where the onboard electronics came in to bring the output up to normal levels, with preamps added internally to do this. This was indeed the genesis of low impedance pickups with a preamp, 'active' electronics, just one more thing that Ron and Alembic pioneered.

So on Alembic instruments with the Series pickup sets, the DS5 power boxes do two things: With AC power, the headroom is far greater than any other method, and the frequency response and headroom is several orders of magnitude past conventional pickup arrangements, but then the rub is it requires the 5-pin cable, which can complicate things. This is why these axes have a brutally clean tone, they're virtually impossible to distort without pedals. Great for bass, not so hot for guitars if that's what you're after.

These instruments include an 'emergency' double 9v battery arrangement to get you through a gig should the power box or cable fail, but these use comparatively a lot of power and you'll be lucky to get much more than 5 or 6 hours out of new batteries.

Their later instruments (they lack that smaller 'middle' pick up, actually a hum canceller for the single coil Series pickups) are a bit more conventional, don't require the 5-pin cable, use a regular mono guitar cable and a single 9v battery, and battery life is comparable to any other bass out there. I'd change mine at New Years and 4th of July and never had a problem, ever, on my Spoiler Five and Elan Five.

Alembics are a completely different world in some ways. I always say they're not for everyone, but if you 'get it', there is nothing, but nothing like an Alembic.

Jim Grandcamp (tours with Richard Bona, Hadrien Féraud and Magma to name a few) uses a ZAM device on active strats, no problem with having crunch or distorsion...

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[MYLOWFREQ]

On the subject of cables. I know there are millions of bass guitars and amp's out there but, I have wondered why any new ones are not manufactored with a speakon type jack for more secure connections from bass to amp

Because if you trip over the cable, you'll knock off your bass or amp. It's better when it's unplugged instead.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Yeah … my thought as well. Fire the roadie!

He was probably high.

 

[Naigewron]

For pro touring bassists, sidemen always on the road, with big production/touring management companies, it is actually a hassle: they simply cannot deal with the fatality of having a bad battery only once in a while, as in that kind of situation EVERYTHING has to be 99 to 100% reliable or your reputation gets down, a 9V battery problem is not tolerated.

You can never be sure everything is without fault 100% of the time. Cables break too, along with power supplies, so there's pretty much an equal chance of failure no matter what. If you're *that* obsessed with failure points, you should play passive.

And while we're talking about pros: Many of them play wireless and would not like to be tied down by a cable.

But if someone would prefer to power their bass through the instrument cable, more power to them (pun not intended). But it should definitely not be designed as the only way to power the bass.

 

[Tosh]

My SY-1000 powers my Godin A4 via the 13pin GK (Roland) cable - no battery in the box

(expensive cable, however, with a somewhat fragile locking connector, and not everyone wants a GK-enabled bass)

 

[MDBass]

The "special" cable should be an XLR mic cable... and the "special power box" should be regular phantom power...

Guitars and basses SHOULD have been built from day one with balanced outputs on an XLR, and then when someone needed power for actives, it would have just been there. But they weren't and we don't. We've got 70 odd years invested in the jack plug and "guitar lead", amps and effects... Guitar builders saved $1 per guitar putting the cheaper connector on, and we are where we are. From here it's just easier to put a battery than invent time travel, go back and try and convince Fender to give up $1 profit.

The first electric bass, the Precision, debuted in 1951.

The first active bass, the Stingray, debuted in 1974.

There was no reason for bass guitar and amp manufacturers to even consider balanced outputs and phantom power for over two decades.

 

[BeMoreFrench]

You can never be sure everything is without fault 100% of the time. Cables break too, along with power supplies, so there's pretty much an equal chance of failure no matter what. If you're *that* obsessed with failure points, you should play passive.

And while we're talking about pros: Many of them play wireless and would not like to be tied down by a cable.

But if someone would prefer to power their bass through the instrument cable, more power to them (pun not intended). But it should definitely not be designed as the only way to power the bass.

it's sad when someone cut a quote to only get the things that suits his mind, it's wrong man... really wrong. It's disrespectful and dishonest, to say the least.

Wireless is also a hassle, way more than the 9V battery, wireless systems need batteries too. And worse of it all, it's not sustainable. The problem also has to do with wi-fi, those 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz, and the crowd having their phone set on wi-fi. Sure you can go UHF on 500mhz, but there again batteries needed and issues can occur.

 

[Naigewron]

it's sad when someone cut a quote to only get the things that suits his mind, it's wrong man... really wrong. It's disrespectful and dishonest, to say the least.

Wireless is also a hassle, way more than the 9V battery, wireless systems need batteries too. And worse of it all, it's not sustainable. The problem also has to do with wi-fi, those 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz, and the crowd having their phone set on wi-fi. Sure you can go UHF on 500mhz, but there again batteries needed and issues can occur.

Apologies if you felt disrespected, but what did I cut that I didn't respond to?

Anyway, in short: Everything is a hassle, everything can break, always bring spares. I'll be sticking with batteries. They're readily available at any store everywhere in the world, while instrument cables that carry power are not.

I didn't say wireless wasn't a hassle. However, many pros (and others) still prefer using them, which would be impossible if they powered their bass through a cable. We all make compromises, and choose how much risk of failure it's all worth.

 

[CletusMarley]

I think it's a cool idea but batteries have always done the trick for me anytime I was using active pickups or a preamp etc. I've had my Stingray for a year and it still has the same battery in it. If I were gigging it would prob be different. I'd change the battery every couple months just to be safe. I like to keep it simple. Lol

 

[primusfan1989]

Because not every preamp is the same.

This is technically true, however the majority of them use a single 9 volt battery, most of them have similar power requirements

 

[jazzyvee]

A great idea until you forget the cable at home...story is this happened to john entwistle in the 70s during a concert.

Alembic series basses also have 2x18v batteries inside, essentially as backup for those situations and you can use a standard Jack cable.
I've never had to use mine on a gig.

 

[wiscoaster]

I have often wondered why we still use 1/4" phone cables. The phone company does not use them any more.

Because they remind me of younger and better days.
Who uses the phone company any more?

 

[jazzyvee]

Alembic series basses also have 2x18v batteries inside, essentially as backup for those situations and you can use a standard Jack cable.
I've never had to use mine on a gig.

I meant mine has 2x9v batteries not 2x18v batteries.