Why aren't Jazz basses wired Volume-Balance-Tone?

[India_Sierra]

I have one bass with VVT and another with VBT.

Both get me to where I want to be.

I don't see downsides in either.

Same here. In my case, the bridge will be running in full and the neck pickup will be varied to suit. Balance is never more than 50/50 and never in favour of the neck. I suppose if you do favour the neck pickup more it could be a balancing act to level it out. FWIW, six out of my seven basses use a blend pot and only my Basslab L-Bow uses individual pickup volumes. I don't have any problems using either.

 

[grrg63]

If it aint broke, dont fix it.

 

[Blue]

The "volume" controls on a VVT wired bass don't really work like volume controls - as the pickups are reactive (their impedance varies with frequency), using potentiometers to turn two of those things up and down is something that, unless you put in an active circuit, really doesn't work well - they are as much tone controls as they are volume controls. The way VVT setups are done, the volume controls are wired backwards from what you see in a P bass. They "turn down" a pickup (this works very differently at high frequencies than it does at low frequencies) mostly by shunting it. What you get is, when you turn down a pickup, you turn down the high frequencies from that pickup by quite a bit, but the low frequencies don't get turned down much until the pot is close to zero - it's almost an on/off switch. If you use linear taper pots for the volume controls, all the same stuff happens, but the thing is even more of a switch - it exaggerates the major flaw in the scheme even more.

Best Answer

 

[TJL]

So you have to suffer for your art. LOL.

 

[BQFS]

In my experience, and this only applies to passive tone controls, with single coil pickups, a passive blend control doesn't cut it. In any position but center, you are likely to encounter hum. But I prefer active tone controls and when it comes to that, I am okay with either VV or VB. What I do NOT like are some circuits, like some EMG controls, that offer master volume and a selector switch for neck only, bridge only, or both. I need some way to adjust the percentage of each pickup individually.

 

[bottomzone]

My Sire V7 5 preamp is vol/tone, balance, treble. mid/sweep and bass. I really like this preamp!!!

 

[JimChjones]

My jazz is wired VVP, where P is a rotary switch for pickup phase. With the out of phase the relationship between volumes is critical as both at 100% heavily cancels, but 100/90 is very useful. Don't believe a blend would work the same way for me.
I tend to associate blend pots with active circuits.

 

[Ralf1e]

Shoot if you are going to do that you would be better off doing a V/V/T/T

Is that the Spector owners club I can hear cheering in the background

 

[Ralf1e]

Has anyone said 'sliders' yet? no?
OK. Sliders.

No no one has said swell peddle either
Swell peddle.

 

[Doug4321]

Another vote for just a pickup selector and V,T.

I also have a Starfire, with pickup selector, VTVT, also a master volume. It’s all a bit overkill. Mostly I just use the pickup selector, and the master volume to tone down the hot pickups sometimes.

Although, turning the tone mostly or all the way down on the bridge pickup, up on the neck, and both pickups on, is a cool sound you can’t do with a standard Jazz.

 

[ToddB1963]

That's pretty much how I roll. Neck pickup at 100%, bridge at 75-80% and tone at 60%. My Jazz stays like this all the time. For other nuances, I use my fingers.

This intrigues me. As mentioned in a previous post, whenever I've used a jazz (I've had three over the years) with one pickup at 100% and the other only partially on, to me it has always sounded just like the dominant pickup. The only 'blend' possible to my ear (and it's slight) is when one pickup is at 100% and the other is at about 95% just before the bass enters full humbucking mode.

 

[jetgraphics]

It cost more and Leo Fender preferred pocketing the cash, probably.

NOPE. He listened to his customers, and gave them what they wanted.

How Dick Dale Changed the Sound of Rock Guitar
Leo Fender: The guitar genius who couldn’t play a note
Leo had this saying: ‘If I have 100 dollars to make something, I’ll spend 99 making it work and one dollar making it pretty.’ That was like the best spent dollar! It was the farthest a dollar’s ever gone.”
History Of Leo Fender And Jim Marshall Guitar Amplifiers
Fender's amplifiers were copied by many others, including Jim Marshall.
... Ken Bran persuaded Jim Marshall that it would be feasible, and profitable, to copy the Fender Bassman using English components and sell the amps through Marshall’s shop. The English components and tubes (or valves, as they call them over there) yielded different tonal qualities than American amps like Fender. Sensing the germ of something good, Marshall began exploiting these qualities to develop his own amp designs.

 

[jetgraphics]

For a quickie introduction to the mysteries of electronics, pickups, tone controls, and amps, I suggest you read Hartley Peavey's collection of "white papers" on the subject.

https://peavey.com/PDFs/HPW-Chapter-1.pdf
https://peavey.com/PDFs/HPW-Chapter-2.pdf
https://peavey.com/PDFs/HPW-Chapter-3.pdf
https://peavey.com/PDFs/HPW-Chapter-4.pdf
https://peavey.com/PDFs/HPW-Chapter-5.pdf
https://peavey.com/PDFs/HPW-Chapter-6.pdf
https://peavey.com/PDFs/HPW-Chapter-7.pdf

Chapter 1 - How it all began
Chapter 2 - The Weakest Link (speakers)
Chapter 3 - TransTube (transistor that sounds like tube)
Chapter 4 - Power output versus available power
Chapter 5 - Magnetic Pickup
Chapter 6 - Tubes
Chapter 7 - Speakers

 

[39-Bassist]

Is that the Spector owners club I can hear cheering in the background

I will say this...Not a Spector fan.
Personally I run a 3way with 1 tone / 1 volume

Darn I thought the cheering was for me just showing up? LOL

Have a great rest of the week!

 

[bcouper]

Damn good question

 

[Joe Bob]

75% neck + 50% bridge is simply a 60-40 split between neck and bridge. Of course you can do it with VBT. Set it to 60-40 and set the volume where you want it.

It's not exactly the the same because changing the volume changes the tone. You also cannot get both pickups at 100% because at center, to keep volume constant, a balance knob will be down 3db for each pickup.

 

[skycruiser]

It's not exactly the the same because changing the volume changes the tone. You also cannot get both pickups at 100% because at center, to keep volume constant, a balance knob will be down 3db for each pickup.

That's why they put gain and volume knobs on pretty much every device down the line. Identical - no, and I didn't claim that, and also said the tone will be different due to minor circuit differences. But you can set all ratios and a wide range of volume for both.

 

[SteveCS]

...
at center, to keep volume constant, a balance knob will be down 3db for each pickup.

Isn't that the difference between the A/C and M/N pots? The A/C (log/antilog) is as you describe, i.e. <100% at centre and is the wrong choice in this application, whereas the linear M/N, which is what should be used in this application, is 100% at centre:

 

[Gusdfunk]

The "volume" controls on a VVT wired bass don't really work like volume controls - as the pickups are reactive (their impedance varies with frequency), using potentiometers to turn two of those things up and down is something that, unless you put in an active circuit, really doesn't work well - they are as much tone controls as they are volume controls. The way VVT setups are done, the volume controls are wired backwards from what you see in a P bass. They "turn down" a pickup (this works very differently at high frequencies than it does at low frequencies) mostly by shunting it. What you get is, when you turn down a pickup, you turn down the high frequencies from that pickup by quite a bit, but the low frequencies don't get turned down much until the pot is close to zero - it's almost an on/off switch. If you use linear taper pots for the volume controls, all the same stuff happens, but the thing is even more of a switch - it exaggerates the major flaw in the scheme even more.

Agree... "they are as much tone controls as they are volume controls."

 

[Joe Bob]

Isn't that the difference between the A/C and M/N pots?

Not for a balance knob, which has two pots with opposite but otherwise identical tapers that are specifically designed to keep overall volume constant rom two sources assumed to be identical. Thus, in the middle, each source is at 50% perceived volume or about -3db for audio.