Double Bass Why do my new Evah Pirazzi Slap suck?

[fasternak]

I put some on a bass recently and one of the strings sounded very weird. It also had a very irregular look to it as the open string vibrated. The bass had a terrible problem with feedback when amplified. Turned out that the notch in the bridge was wrong. Be sure the notch is only slightly rounded so the front of it firmly contacts the string. You want just a slight easing of the front and back edges. Never had that problem with any other string.

I put some on a bass recently and one of the strings sounded very weird. It also had a very irregular look to it as the open string vibrated. The bass had a terrible problem with feedback when amplified. Turned out that the notch in the bridge was wrong. Be sure the notch is only slightly rounded so the front of it firmly contacts the string. You want just a slight easing of the front and back edges. Never had that problem with any other string.

Hi Greg - A lot of discussion here about various strings. To be clear, by ‘some’ you mean EP Slaps, right? I’ll look at that with regard to the lingering issue I’m having with the wonky E. Thanks! Your commentary brings up another odd anomaly I’ve passed off as insignificant until just now. I ditched my clip-on tuner and took up tuning by ear in session yesterday because the tuner failed to recognize my new EP Slap D string. It simply refused to display the letter D no matter where I put the tuner on the bridge. The D string sounds fine to my average ears. But my tuner doesn’t like it which suggests to me that the vibrating string maybe generating a confusing array of harmonics that I can’t hear. I’ve been using this cheap clip-on successfully for a number years. Maybe I just need a better tuner with these new strings.

 

[bassically_eli]

Hi Greg - A lot of discussion here about various strings. To be clear, by ‘some’ you mean EP Slaps, right? I’ll look at that with regard to the lingering issue I’m having with the wonky E. Thanks! Your commentary brings up another odd anomaly I’ve passed off as insignificant until just now. I ditched my clip-on tuner and took up tuning by ear in session yesterday because the tuner failed to recognize my new EP Slap D string. It simply refused to display the letter D no matter where I put the tuner on the bridge. The D string sounds fine to my average ears. But my tuner doesn’t like it which suggests to me that the vibrating string maybe generating a confusing array of harmonics that I can’t hear. I’ve been using this cheap clip-on successfully for a number years. Maybe I just need a better tuner with these new strings.

Did you try the octave harmonic as well as the open string? I find the harmonic typically works even when the open string doesn't get picked up nicely. It also helps to tune with the bow.

 

[fasternak]

You can also manage, reduce or eliminate wolf tones by tuning the after-lenģths with tailgut adjustment. In extreme cases you can even install an assymetric tailpiece to move after-lenģths individually.

Wow! Did not realize the after-length is tunable. And I can’t imagine how it’s done. I see sponge rubber stuffed between the strings in this region on occasion. Perhaps this accomplishes the same thing.

 

[fasternak]

Did you try the octave harmonic as well as the open string? I find the harmonic typically works even when the open string doesn't get picked up nicely. It also helps to tune with the bow.

I did overlook the harmonic octave. And I just tried it and it works! These cheap tuners often quibble with the E regardless of the string brand. And, lo and behold, it works well with harmonic E too. I don’t know why it never occurred to me to try this. Perhaps it’s because I don’t actually know any other bass players. We don’t cross paths very often. Here’s to the beauty of the forum - Clink! Really appreciate getting this valuable tidbit of advice. Thank you, BE.

 

[fasternak]

@fasternak If possible, play facing a corner in the room (as close as you can get). The reflections off the corner walls will make you hear your bass sound in all it’s glory

Good - Thanks!

 

[bassically_eli]

Yea, I typically have to use the octave for the E-string on upright and for the low B on bass guitar. There are also little weights that attach to the afterlengths called wolf tone eliminators. They are sold for cello/bass, and my experience has been that the weight isn't quite enough if a bass has a strong wolf tone. Also, sometimes they actually work better on the next string up from the one with the wolf tone. You have to experiment to find the right position, but it's typically near one of the harmonics of the after length--either 1/3rd or 1/4th the distance from bridge to tailpiece. I actually had a bass in college with a nut and bolt attached to the afterlength....

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[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Hi Greg - A lot of discussion here about various strings. To be clear, by ‘some’ you mean EP Slaps, right? I’ll look at that with regard to the lingering issue I’m having with the wonky E. Thanks! Your commentary brings up another odd anomaly I’ve passed off as insignificant until just now. I ditched my clip-on tuner and took up tuning by ear in session yesterday because the tuner failed to recognize my new EP Slap D string. It simply refused to display the letter D no matter where I put the tuner on the bridge. The D string sounds fine to my average ears. But my tuner doesn’t like it which suggests to me that the vibrating string maybe generating a confusing array of harmonics that I can’t hear. I’ve been using this cheap clip-on successfully for a number years. Maybe I just need a better tuner with these new strings.

Yes, EP Slaps. I’ve put them on two basses recently and they were good on one. IIRC, the problem string was an A because I also put Olive D and G on that bass. The Slaps are a very gutlike string which mates well with the Olivs.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Dial in the sound…I truly wish I could simultaneously play and stand 15 feet in front of my bass. Thanks Sam.

Me too. I think all of us wish we could stand out front and hear ourselves sound check.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Can you expand on that a little bit? I have not really noticed this, but I follow and agree with everything else that you said.
…

The point is that at a certain volume the raising amount of plucking energy does not get the same amount of acoustical output raised. Think of a compressor with a high threshold and high compression or a limiter.

This is bad if you are in the middle of a tune and want to get louder but cannot raise the volume because you cannot stop playing to do that. Typically you pluck harder but the volume gets hardly raised at all. Not healthy for your fingers. You also need to pull the strings wider to get the same amount of volume with a stretchier string.

I once measured the stretch of different strings just by tuning them down by a minor third and measure the amount of string length that slipped over the nut. (I really did it the other way round, approaching the normal pitch from a minor third below, but that does not make any difference.)

I Had started a thread here on Talkbass publishing my measurements. I think it started with „Elongation of“. Not much interest in this thread yet. But everyone can do these kind of measurements. Just mark the string and measure the slip after tuning.
Nylon/Perlon and PEEK are very stretchy, the Innovation braided core that is used in any Innovation string except the Polychromes (but they are similar) and the Honeys (monofiber synthetic core) are close to the stretch of a plain gut G. The steel core strings I measured had only a fraction of the Innovation braided or gut G core stretch.

 

[fasternak]

Did you try the octave harmonic as well as the open string? I find the harmonic typically works even when the open string doesn't get picked up nicely. It also helps to tune with the bow.

Yea, I typically have to use the octave for the E-string on upright and for the low B on bass guitar. There are also little weights that attach to the afterlengths called wolf tone eliminators. They are sold for cello/bass, and my experience has been that the weight isn't quite enough if a bass has a strong wolf tone. Also, sometimes they actually work better on the next string up from the one with the wolf tone. You have to experiment to find the right position, but it's typically near one of the harmonics of the after length--either 1/3rd or 1/4th the distance from bridge to tailpiece. I actually had a bass in college with a nut and bolt attached to the afterlength....

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I’ve been looking more closely at wolf tone information online. I don’t use the bow a great deal. And I don’t own a fully carved instrument. So I didn’t believe this is the problem. But I’ve now seen enough online to realize that it may, in fact, be the source of the trouble I am still having in the region of G on the E string. I’m going ask my girlfriend to pinch the

Yea, I typically have to use the octave for the E-string on upright and for the low B on bass guitar. There are also little weights that attach to the afterlengths called wolf tone eliminators. They are sold for cello/bass, and my experience has been that the weight isn't quite enough if a bass has a strong wolf tone. Also, sometimes they actually work better on the next string up from the one with the wolf tone. You have to experiment to find the right position, but it's typically near one of the harmonics of the after length--either 1/3rd or 1/4th the distance from bridge to tailpiece. I actually had a bass in college with a nut and bolt attached to the afterlength....

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Hi BE - You may be interested to know that I gave my bass the bow and glissade wolf tone test (as per YouTube demo). And to my surprise, ‘A’ in several locations are very noticeably louder than any other spot on my fingerboard. Did not get the big bad wolf tone but did discover ‘A’ generates the most sympathetic resonance in my bass - which is something closer to a wolf in sheep’s clothing as I understand it via YouTube university. I’m now wondering if my original issue was the wolf. And raising the action somehow quelled sympathetic resonance. So it seems you are right. Fascinating stuff.

 

[lurk]

I tried these when they first came out. In my opinion - Fwiw I don't slap and was looking for, what else?, a PC type sound - they suck because they suck.

 

[fasternak]

I tried these when they first came out. In my opinion - Fwiw I don't slap and was looking for, what else?, a PC type sound - they suck because they suck.

Yeah? I may agree with you. We shall see in a few weeks. What was your experience like, Lurk?

 

[fasternak]

I’m pretty much gonna check out now and finish breaking in these strings.This has been a terrifically informative thread. I kind of milked it to the last detail. And I subsequently learned a bunch. Thanks to everyone who contributed!

 

[lurk]

Yeah? I may agree with you. We shall see in a few weeks. What was your experience like, Lurk?

Dull, lifeless. Gave them a month or so and they never improved. Of course these things are very subjective, personal, and bass-dependent. Experimenting with different strings is one of the few things we can do that really change the feel and sound of our instruments and I do it too much. Expensive habit.

 

[fasternak]

Hi- Just replaced the three year old Spiro Weichs on my 25 year old Christopher…..

I started this thread. And I’d like to report that after adjusting the bridge and breaking in my new strings over the last five or so weeks, my new EP Slaps are sounding pretty sweet. And what’s more, all of the tone control nobs on my AI Clarus SL-2 are in the 12 o’clock position for the first time ever and my persistent fiddling with them has ceased. The slaps are far easier to play than the Spiros too. Three or more hours on the Spirocores sometimes aggravate the nerves in the fingertips of my left hand (inflammation which oddly hurts more when I am not playing then when I play). The Slaps are effortless to play by contrast. The E string is a bit flubby -particularly at B and above. And so I am considering replacing it with a different string. Other than this I love em! Thanks again to all for the good advice.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

I started this thread. And I’d like to report that after adjusting the bridge and breaking in my new strings over the last five or so weeks, my new EP Slaps are sounding pretty sweet. And what’s more, all of the tone control nobs on my AI Clarus SL-2 are in the 12 o’clock position for the first time ever and my persistent fiddling with them has ceased. The slaps are far easier to play than the Spiros too. Three or more hours on the Spirocores sometimes aggravate the nerves in the fingertips of my left hand (inflammation which oddly hurts more when I am not playing then when I play). The Slaps are effortless to play by contrast. The E string is a bit flubby -particularly at B and above. And so I am considering replacing it with a different string. Other than this I love em! Thanks again to all for the good advice.

This is about my experience as well. I am looking at trying a Piastro Flexocor F# solo string, downtuned to E, to just about match the tension of the EP Slaps. But it comes in three versions: Flexocor, Flexocor original, and Flexocor Deluxe. Any opinions? This is for pizz.

 

[fasternak]

This is about my experience as well. I am looking at trying a Piastro Flexocor F# solo string, downtuned to E, to just about match the tension of the EP Slaps. But it comes in three versions: Flexocor, Flexocor original, and Flexocor Deluxe. Any opinions? This is for pizz.

Sorry. Never used Flexocor. I am interested to know what others here recommend, though.

 

[Sam Reese]

I'd throw that 3 year old Spiro on and see what you think. I have Innovation Super Silvers on my laminate bass right now and would consider the E over EP Slaps now that I know their sound and feel.

 

[Francois Blais]

This is about my experience as well. I am looking at trying a Piastro Flexocor F# solo string, downtuned to E, to just about match the tension of the EP Slaps. But it comes in three versions: Flexocor, Flexocor original, and Flexocor Deluxe. Any opinions? This is for pizz.

Flexocor Originals don't come is solo-gauge.
Original Flat-chromes do, however.
Anyway I'd take the Flex Deluxe in solo gauge in your list.
The others are simply too dead for pizz at orchestra pitch.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

Flexocor Originals don't come is solo-gauge.
Original Flat-chromes do, however.
Anyway I'd take the Flex Deluxe in solo gauge in your list.
The others are simply too dead for pizz at orchestra pitch.

Good advice. One problem to me however, is that the Deluxe solo F# is 33 kgs tension, whereas "plain" Flexocor solo is 29,7 kgs. Which brings them in at about 27,5 kgs and 24,75 kgs at orchestra tuning. Evah slaps synthetic are around 21 kgs. That alone could lead me in the direction of the non-deluxe.