I had luthier Mike Magee set up my Upton with EP Slaps in March 2021. He also mentioned some "weird" sound regarding the strings and your description "ah-oo-wa" is really accurate from my recollection. I played March thru October 2021 with a busy performance schedule and really didn't think too much of that funky sound effect after raising the action a bit and being gig-busy. I've had the EP Slaps on my carved bass also and have tried the Spiro Mitt EA, EP Slap DG combo. I don't particularly like the E string (too flubby/soft sounding for me). I have Innovation Super Silvers on the Upton right now and really like the tension and fundamental of that E.
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Double Bass Why do my new Evah Pirazzi Slap suck?
- Thread starter fasternak
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I also had a similar experience. I had them low-ish (like 5-6mm on the G) and while they didn’t buzz they also sounded wonky and difficult to intonate on my bass. They sounded more “true” at a higher string height.
FWIW I found Evah Weichs set lower easier on my hands (and honestly better sounding) than the Slaps at the required height to get them speaking well for pizz and arco. They are sort of tight for slap but I could make it work for the odd solo or one-off tune. For heavy, constant slap playing the Evah Slap are amazing feeling and sounding, and they do have a decent pizz and arco sound on the right bass.
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Coincidentally, this past weekend I was in a group class. The instructor took 2 Engles - 1 w/ spiros and mine w/ the guts, and explained how they were different and how that affected what you could do with them. Both can play very well, but I suspect just switching back and forth would be a challenge.
It does not. It just raises the tailpiece a little bit.Mounting the Slaps this way will give more tension on the bridge:
The angle of the tailpiece is not fixed (if would have been you were right). It moves so that the strings are in line with the shortest path from bridge groove to saddle, which is always the same for the same bridge in the same position with the same saddle height.
So the angle of the string at the bridge keeps constant ans so the pressure of the bridge on the top.
If you only change some of the strings, it can change the relative pressure of them.
But keep in mind that the tailpiece can and does still rotate in its length axis to keep the line as short as possible. So some bridge angles rise and others fall. That can be helpful to get more or less pressure for a weak or dominant string.
Since this way of mounting shortens the underlength and therefor rises the underlength frequency, it might be useful to change wolf notes on strings.
Just an idea, never tried that myself.
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This is appealing, Francois. It doesn’t appear to shorten the string too much. The bottom of the active part of the string appears to have moved to the top of the tailpiece where the ring pulls the string inward a titch toward the belly of the bass. Is this a commonly accepted alternative to the standard method of stringing a bass? I’ll take a look at those rings tomorrow in the studio. They appear to have rounded, rather sharp, edges in your photo. So I trust they won’t cut the string under tension. Update: I see a second opinion from another doctor (DoubleMIDI) appeared in the thread while I was writing this paragraph. I referred to the span of string between tailpiece and bridge as active. Well that’s obviously wrong. And I’ve gotten a bit lost. It’s pretty clear to me now that I’m out of my depth with the physics. I do appreciate the creative thinking and the effort to help. Many thanks!
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That method comes from the mounting of the higher gut strings which have a loop knotted at their end, similar to the ball end with a hole in it.
But as I said, in only raises the tailpiece, so no pressure rise at the bridge.
You may get an effect from the shorter vibrating underlength. But that’s all.
We had this discussion elsewhere on Talkbass a while ago.
But as I said, in only raises the tailpiece, so no pressure rise at the bridge.
You may get an effect from the shorter vibrating underlength. But that’s all.
We had this discussion elsewhere on Talkbass a while ago.
Hello Sam - I’m sorry you ran into similar difficulty with these strings. However, I do appreciate the confirmation. I played with others for the first time with these strings yesterday. And I felt a little buried. They’re softer spoken than my Spiro Weichs, of course.
And I got a little obsessive with knobs - turning the volume up, up, up, futzing endlessly with tone controls, switching from piezo to ribbon mic and back to piezo. And tuning the ever-stretching new strings between each tune (The E is flubby - perfect term for it). I’m hoping switching to Slaps doesn’t give me a terminal case of OCD. I’m certain it was an unpleasant experience for my playmates.
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I think you'll like the strings. Just give them an honest break in period. I was just about ready to put a Spiro E on with EP Slap ADG, but GAS hit me and I bought new strings for both basses. I'd concentrate on learning how it sounds via piezo and get that dialed in.
Switching from any Spiros to Evah slaps is a big jump. I agree that new strings should be played for at least two weeks before judged, but I think you are better served with a bit higher tension synthetic core strings.
You need to separate tension from core stretch.
Pressing down a string elongates it (it builds a triangle with the string in the open position) so a core that needs more power to elongate like steel needs more power to press down art the fingerboard. Synthetics and gut need less power to get pressed down, even with the same string tension that indeed has an influence too.
Too easy stretching or too low tension might get you a plucked note with a falling pitch initially if plucked hard. The easy stretching can also limit the dynamic response to your plucking energy (i.e. with Evah Weich).
Close to an ideal stretching is the synthetic core of most strings from Innovation (except the Honeys maybe).
The Braided are close in tension to Spiro Weich, no dynamic limit like Evah Weich for my rather heavy plucking, easier to press down and still a nice tone. A bit soft attack over time, but you might like it. Otherwise try the Polychromes. They have a lower tension than the Braided, but a bit less stretchy core. My early prototypes still work nicely after several years.
The stretch of the Braided is similar to the stretch of a typical plain gut G. So you even can put the bridge a bit higher with them. But even 6 to 11 mm works fine for me with the Braided and Prototypes (which are a bit higher tension than the Polychromes, similar to the Braided).
You need to separate tension from core stretch.
Pressing down a string elongates it (it builds a triangle with the string in the open position) so a core that needs more power to elongate like steel needs more power to press down art the fingerboard. Synthetics and gut need less power to get pressed down, even with the same string tension that indeed has an influence too.
Too easy stretching or too low tension might get you a plucked note with a falling pitch initially if plucked hard. The easy stretching can also limit the dynamic response to your plucking energy (i.e. with Evah Weich).
Close to an ideal stretching is the synthetic core of most strings from Innovation (except the Honeys maybe).
The Braided are close in tension to Spiro Weich, no dynamic limit like Evah Weich for my rather heavy plucking, easier to press down and still a nice tone. A bit soft attack over time, but you might like it. Otherwise try the Polychromes. They have a lower tension than the Braided, but a bit less stretchy core. My early prototypes still work nicely after several years.
The stretch of the Braided is similar to the stretch of a typical plain gut G. So you even can put the bridge a bit higher with them. But even 6 to 11 mm works fine for me with the Braided and Prototypes (which are a bit higher tension than the Polychromes, similar to the Braided).
Innovation Super Silvers have a higher tension (than Slaps) and with that more volume. Super Silvers are like ornery bucking broncos when you put them on (for me anyway), but after a month or so of playing are developing into a mighty fine set.
Dial in the sound - good advice. Raising the action very nearly eliminated all of the ugly. I’m going to stop hacking at the Slaps for awhile and finish breaking them in as you and many here have suggested I do. I truly wish I could simultaneously play and stand 15 feet in front of my bass. Thanks Sam.
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Your extensive experience with strings and subsequent understanding of the physics is impressive, DM. I rarely change strings. And I am certainly too poor to experiment with multiple sets. This forum is such a valuable resource. Your commentary does remind me of yet one more thing I’ve noticed about my new EP Slaps. I am still spontaneously applying Spiro pressure on them. And I realized yesterday that these things sound better- to me anyway - with far lighter finger pressure. These strings could potentially spoil me. I do love this about them at this early stage of the break in period.
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@fasternak If possible, play facing a corner in the room (as close as you can get). The reflections off the corner walls will make you hear your bass sound in all it’s glory
Ha! GAS. I had to look that one up. I’m neurotic - as in destined to rake the black abyss for the ideal sound for eternity. But fortunately GAS is not a prominent feature of my upright bass pathology.
Do folks find that Evah Slaps success would still be dependent on your bass being functional with low tension strings? For example i tried guts on my ply, gave them a bit of time to settle it, and they just were not working. With that said i did not try to fix the problem via the setup and just went back to higher tension steel.
I haven't tried Evah Slaps, but that would certainly be my expectation based on my experience with other strings. Then again, I suppose a sound post adjustment or new sound post could totally change that.
My ply did not suffer when switching from Spiro Mittels to Weichs, and then again to EP Weichs. (I think I like how it responds to the weichs a little better than the mittels, but that's just personal preference.) However, I tried another brand of very low tension, synthetic core (and gut inspired, I think) strings, the Aquila Red Springs Metal, and the volume dropped like crazy. It was like forte and beyond were just not there anymore. I couldn't get the E&A to stop rattling even with the action raised. I didn't try taking it in for a sound post adjustment, though.
Can you expand on that a little bit? I have not really noticed this, but I follow and agree with everything else that you said. I had Spiro Weichs on my ply earlier this year, then switched to a used set of EP Weichs. I like both a lot; it's basically a toss up. There are sonic differences for sure, and the feel under the bow is somewhat different (both are good IMO, just different), but both seem to respond quite well to dynamics both arco and pizz--again, for me, my bass, my taste, etc. I have a pretty heavy right hand and produce quite a lot of volume acoustically, if that matters.
Edit: I hope this isn't a derail. Sorry if it's too off topic.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I put some on a bass recently and one of the strings sounded very weird. It also had a very irregular look to it as the open string vibrated. The bass had a terrible problem with feedback when amplified. Turned out that the notch in the bridge was wrong. Be sure the notch is only slightly rounded so the front of it firmly contacts the string. You want just a slight easing of the front and back edges. Never had that problem with any other string.
I started the thread. And this is not off topic as far as I’m concerned. A lot of useful content here.
You can also manage, reduce or eliminate wolf tones by tuning the after-lenģths with tailgut adjustment. In extreme cases you can even install an assymetric tailpiece to move after-lenģths individually.
