• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

why does everyone use fender?

#181
Not to quote myself, but as a point of reference ....

pointbass said:
Finally, as I understand it (although to be fair this is assumed by me since it wasn't openly stated by anyone), it's really okay to talk about recording engineers preferences and pro touring gigs and cutting through the mix even though the great majority of the posters to this thread likely have no experience in any of these situations (or at least their profiles don't reflect any experiences of this type). Those who do have this real life experience (like JimmyM, for example, although he is not the only one) get my attention because they have some facts to back them up and I value and respect their opinions, even if I don't always agree. (note: bold added)
Click to expand...

Which leads me to ....

JimmyM said:
Apparently some of you have a problem with that concept and think that your talent wil overcome everything. It won't. I don't care who you are or what you do, your talent will at some point be meaningless to someone who hires you. If you play music as a pro for long, at some point you will get someone who wants to hire you because they want a project done the way they want it done and they don't care in the least about your talent or your opinion of your equipment. And it's usually the gigs that have the least freedom that pay the best. You want to walk away from it, that's your deal. Me, I can't afford to walk away from it. I'll do everything they ask to the best of my ability. Wanna call me a sellout, you go right ahead. I'll see you at the bank.

Let me ask a hypothetical of the people who think that's selling out...someone calls you and says they heard you were a great bassist and they have a session they want you to play and it pays $200 an hour with an eight hour guarantee, but when you get there with your wonderful $5000 Fodera and your $3000 Sadowsky and your whatever, there's some old dilapidated 1960's Teisco bass with the original strings that the producer absolutely loves and wants you to play and he doesn't want to hear from your basses. Do you insist on using your bass and he throws you out and hires someone else, or do you pick up the Teisco and make your $1600? If you say you'd insist on using your bass, I'll call you a moron to your face.
Click to expand...
See, that's what I'm talking about .... opinions from a working cat that fully understands the real world and what it's like to have to make your nickles from playing. Props .... :cool:

Also, to clarify an earlier point when I said I have never, ever been asked to play a specific bass .... I have never, ever put myself in a position of going to a gig/session with the wrong axe, so I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking that I walk into a unknown situation with a 7 string only, hoping my amazingly smoking chops will get me through (if only I had amazingly smoking chops :rolleyes: ).

An unknown situation means I bring a 4 string (Fender), a 5 string (lately it's been an FBB, used to be a Fender) and a 4 string fretless. No engineer on an unknown date wants to be struggling with trying to surpress sympathetic overtones from ringing strings on a 7, and I wouldn't want to (and don't) subject them to that. I bring at least 3 basses to every unknown situation and a Fender-esque bass is always in that group. If I know exactly what type of situation I'm walking into, I select the appropriate bass and bring at least one back-up. And the back-up is almost always a Fender ... ;)
 
#182
JimmyM said:
That's a great attitude if you're independently wealthy enough not to care. Some of us need the work, though. Some of us do this for a living. Some of us play in a small community where news of someone's lack of willingness to do what the job requires travels fast. Real easy to tell them to take a walk when you can afford it, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Jimmym:

I can see your point. It's just unfortunate that you have to deal with this. I have been in numerous studio situations and gigs, and luckily have never run into this. I play music on the side for a living. I make a pretty good buck doing it, and it pays the majority of my bills. I have a normal day job and all that money that I make goes to investments and in the bank. I happen to be very fortunate.

I am an easy going guy and easy to work with. If I showed up to studio and the wanted me to play the Fender P-bass that was on the wall, I would. But in our industry word travels by mouth. And if your getting a chance at a gig it's usually because you are player, and that's regardless of the bass you play. I have a hard time believing that the first question is "does he play a Fender". I would like to believe that the first question would be "can he play". I am pretty agreeable to imput on my playing. I have had situations where the engineer has said, "Hey can you play Quarters there instead of Eigths at this part, it seem to fit better." No problem.

But OTOH, if someone were just going to plain old discriminate because I don't own a Fender, that to me is a little outrageous. But to each his own. Like I said before, I have nothing against Fender Basses. Loe Fender came up with a great design that has stood the test of time. The number of copies of the Jazz Bass design says it all. But I still disagree with the point that you can't do it without a Fender. Maybe I'm just narrow minded, but I kinda think it's the other way around. I could be wrong though.

PS:
Jimmy funny stuff on your Bigassbrodcast site! Thank's for the laughs.
 
#185
doctorjazz said:
I think I'm the only person alive who can't use a Fender. When I strap one on, it just feels like a dead, mass-produced, clunky tool to me, not an extension of my body.
Click to expand...

Well said!! And no, your not the only person!

I do like Fender amplification a lot though (but not as much as Euphonic Audio!)
 
#189
pointbass said:
These threads always give me a good chuckle :D After reading this whole thread ( I've got to get a life :rolleyes: ), here's what I got from it .....

As I understand it, if you don't have a Fender then you can't be a pro or ever get any recording gigs, and you probably won't get a job backing up a vocalist (I think I got that all right, didn't I??). Well, phew, I guess I can rest easy because I own a Fender :)

As I understand it, if you have a fancy boutique-type bass that costs $2500+ then you are essentially a wanker that wants to be a solo artist. Unless, or course, you're a big time well known cat like Stanley Clarke or Anthony Jackson, then you get a pass on the Fender and magically you can now get recording gigs and back up vocalists. Uh oh, I own a few of those fancy-dan boutique type basses that cost more than $2500 .... dang, now I'm in trouble :crying: :scowl:

As I understand it, if you don't play a Fender in a band and assume the typical support role of the bassist, you won't get any work .... especially if you have one of those new-fangled custom basses, in which case you can only stay at home and play by (or with) yourself. Uh oh again, I'm in even bigger trouble now ..... :help:

As I understand it, a good Fender "is able to stick every High End Bass in its pocket", by which I can only assume that refers to Sadowsky, Lull, Lakland, etc. Well, that only gets a half of an uh oh from me, since I don't own any of those particular basses (but I do have some kinda expensive ones) :eyebrow:

Finally, as I understand it (although to be fair this is assumed by me since it wasn't openly stated by anyone), it's really okay to talk about recording engineers preferences and pro touring gigs and cutting through the mix even though the great majority of the posters to this thread likely have no experience in any of these situations (or at least their profiles don't reflect any experiences of this type). Those who do have this real life experience (like JimmyM, for example, although he is not the only one) get my attention because they have some facts to back them up and I value and respect their opinions, even if I don't always agree.

I'm 55 years old, my TB profile is available for any one to review, I have a web site that gives lots of info about me (probably way too much, actually ;) ), I have been playing bass for money since 1963, and during that entire time I have never, ever been told what bass to play and I have never lost a gig because of my instrument. And my career has been almost exclusively in the NYC/Philly corridor, not in some sparsely populated section of the world.

I like Fenders, always have. I play ERB's that don't have the Fender logo on them because Fender doesn't make a 6 or 7 string. I have found that my custom ERB's specs closely mirror the general dimensions of a Fender P bass (although they look nothing like a Fender), because that's what I like the most.

People play them because they like them, others avoid Fenders because they don't like them. It's just not all that complicated ..... :cool:
Click to expand...

Thank you sir, forget everything I said before in these pages. This is great, especially the end.
 
#191
NickyBass said:
Now, these aren't arguements, but honest questions that I have considered. Sure Fenders would fit in in most styles, but please read this with an open mind:

We all have different goals.

Some want to be session musicians. Fenders definitely fit in here. That's great. However, a good engineer should be forward thinking and open minded. That means working with Fender basses as well as every other bass out there. Why would you want your tone to sound like 90% of the people out there? Why would an engineer want their work to sound like others?

Some are into electric jazz. Fenders fit in here. However, when electric pianos and synths were coming out, pianists embracred this new technology. What if Herbie, or Chick only swore by Steinway? This genre is the most accepting of boutique basses.

Some want to play in cover bands once a month. They work hard all year and want to play a nice instrument. Hey, they deserve it. Again, Fenders would fit in here, but some people want a small reward for busting their hump all day.

Some want to focus on an original project. They may find their sound elsewhere. A nice Fender would get them there, but not everyone has the same idea of tone.

I do think that Fenders fit in nicely in alot of music, but I'm open to any bass that's going to convey what I hear in my head.
Click to expand...

great post nickybass


as for everyone saying if you want to make in music you need a fender, shut up. its music its all just a bunch of sounds, what you want from a sound is you. i dont care what others want, i will never change what i do. it will never matter that you dont like it.

if someone wants me on a track then they want me and MY sound. if they only want a fender sound then they wouldnt call me in the first place.

you should only get a fender because YOU like the sound, as goes for any other bass.
 
#192
mark beem said:
Not everyone does, but for those who do I'd guess it's because Fenders satisfy those requirements they're looking for in a bass... Whatever those requirements may be.
Click to expand...


+1

Well said.....I've been down many roads and quite frankly, Fender works for me. It's not better than any other model, it's not worse. It's a tool that I use to make music and that's enough...
 
#193
Super Dwarf said:
great post nickybass

as for everyone saying if you want to make in music you need a fender, shut up. its music its all just a bunch of sounds, what you want from a sound is you. i dont care what others want, i will never change what i do. it will never matter that you dont like it.

if someone wants me on a track then they want me and MY sound. if they only want a fender sound then they wouldnt call me in the first place.

you should only get a fender because YOU like the sound, as goes for any other bass.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone has said that you have to own a Fender if you want to make it in music. There are plenty of working bass players who have never played a Fender. This has been discussed elsewhere in this thread.

If that's the way you feel, you will probably end up sticking to playing in long-term bands and do an occasional session. Which is great. Nothing at all wrong with that. But if you want to hang out your "pro musician for hire" shingle and do lots of sessions and pickup gigs for money, you're going to lose some work without one.

The idea that "If they hire me, they want me for my sound," that's fine for strictly playing in bands, but it is so not true elsewhere. You'll meet lots of people who really do appreciate your talents and that's why you'll get those calls, but you're also going to run across people who just need the first bassist to answer the phone and they want him to play exactly what they want to hear the way they want to hear it. And they don't give a crap if it's you or the next guy on the list. And those are the ones who usually pay the best. My feeling is that if the sound comes from me and they're hiring me because they like my playing, I can get my sound on any bass out there, so what do I care what bass I'm playing?

Don't know what your career aspirations are, but maybe you'll never ever have a need for a Fender. If you want to be a freelancer, you will absolutely need a Fender. Doesn't have to be an expensive one. Hell, most people don't care what it is as long as it looks and sounds like one. My seafoam green cheapo pieces parts Precision goes over just as well as my MIA Jazz. Even if I despised Fenders, I'd look for a cheapo Fender or copy just to pull out for those people who want it. The amount of gigs I've got from people who wanted me to play one have paid for it many times over.
 
#194
I don't own one now but I like Fenders. But couldn't you make the same argument that if you don't drive a Ford Model T you are not a pro driver? The Model T was similar to the Fender P in that it was the first mass produced item of its kind too. But you don't hear anyone suggesting you have to have one to be able to drive.

Once again, I like the Fenders, but it is more for nostalgic reasons.
 
#196
When there's stuff like this

abii5c_scroll_1_153.jpg


on the market, the cookie-cutter Pee just doesn't exactly get me up and at 'em... ;)

I don't own a Fenfer and never have. Only way I ever will is if it's gifted to me, but the people who buy me stuff know better... ;)
 
#197
Once you are Lee Sklar or someone on that tier you don't necessarily have to deal with Neanderthal engineers or producers. Then you can easily play a Dingwall (or something along the lines of one of his other non-Fenders).

It's mainly regular session players who have to toe the line. "Names" and people who don't do sessions with knee-jerk "6 hours to get a drum sound and 10 seconds for the bass" engineers can play what they like.
 
#198
This sure seems like an extension of the "No more custom basses for me thread" of last week. I was trying to make the same type of points, but not as hilarious and well-stated as these quotes:

Dougjwray: More often that not, time is a factor. Time is $$$ in studios, and, unfortunately, the people spending the money don't want to spend time making the bass sound "good." (I know, I know-- what's "good"?) So a session bassist, especially a novice one, will do his career a big favor by bringing something that works right away. Is this fair? Is this the way it should be? No, but we bassists ARE supporting players, lower on the totem pole than, say, vocalists. And would an engineer want his work to sound like others? Well... in the world of big money, YES! The music industry is a formulaic place, my friend.

Years ago, when I was living in Boston, I had some friends who ran a studio. I used to rent my Precision out to them regularly-- very often a young band would come in and the bass player would have a brand-X bass that would give the engineer a headache. So they'd call me and I'd bring in the Precision.
Similarly, I've recorded in several studios who kept a Fender leaning up against the wall in the corner (no case necessary), ready to be pressed into action.
More than once, I've walked in with a Fender Jazz bass and the engineer has glanced at it, exhaled, grinned, and said, "Now that's what I like to see!"
As I said in an earlier post, it's not right that it should be this way, and yes, Stanley, Victor, Patitucci, et al. have the sufficient stature to get the proper attention given to their non-Fender sounds. Engineers SHOULD be more ambitious about mastering the art of EQ-ing non-Fender basses.
But the reality (at least, in my experience) is that if you, a working bassist, want to: 1) hear yourself in the final mix; and 2) make friends, you'll have a Fender ready.

HotBottomend: A good friend of mine is a recording engineer who has worked with a lot of people. He told me a funny joke a few years ago I'll never forget.
Some guy came in to do a session with some exotic wood fancy boutique bass and the producer looked at him and said "That's cute, where's your Fender?".

DBone: When you want that gig, remember that one little fact. The guy that came in with the old P Bass and the SVT are going to eat your lunch in tone at the next audition you're trying out for, with that "I've-been-had" wanna-be bass and your little 2x12 "POD" combo amp. You may think you initially have a good tone and all, but you're going to probably get handed your hat, at the end of the night......

Bassists are like Morticians and Barbers; It's our job to make others look good, sometimes without direct compliment for doing so. It doesn't make us any less of a musician. It just means that's our "link" in the chain.

And the one that made coffee come out my nose:

Hotbottomend: Whatever dude. I don't know what kind of music scene they have in Brokeback Kentucky, or Hershey Highway Pennsylvania, but out here in
LOS ANGELES, if you show up to a session or an audition with some 6 string bass made out of wood that looks like grandmas china hutch, you get laughed out of the building.

Thank you.

These quotes should be engraved on stone tablets. Amen.
 
#199
And just to get an idea of how warped producers can be about things in general read the Mixerman chronicles about working with the fictionally-named band, BITCH SLAP. Hilarious how gone wrong the biz can be, how much monied mediocrity is calling the shots in and out of the studio.

Here's a bit about the book; originally much of its contents were run as a serial diary on a prominent pro audio site (the installments still might be up - I just haven't checked):

http://www.ektopia.co.uk/ektopia/archives/2005/10/02/mixerman-the-book
 
#200
Hotbottomend: Whatever dude. I don't know what kind of music scene they have in Brokeback Kentucky, or Hershey Highway Pennsylvania, but out here in
LOS ANGELES, if you show up to a session or an audition with some 6 string bass made out of wood that looks like grandmas china hutch, you get laughed out of the building.

Thank you.

Priceless!:)
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back