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Why does my rig not seem to get loud enough?

B

buddysilver

Feb 7, 2010
19
0
Reading, PA
#1
Ok first off my rig consists of:
A GK Backline 600 Head
A Hartke VX Cab (w/tweeter) 300 watts at 8 ohms
Pretty decent for a 15 year old :bassist:

It seems my rig has a very nice low end to it but it always seems to flatten/crap out on the mid to high notes. And the volume does not seem to be as high as it should. I do not understand what causes this.

Would it be the instrument cable? I have a Planet Waves cable (with the shielded end inside the amp) but might even be the input on my bass, because the PA I use at band practice even has problems volume wise with my instrument.

Would it be the amp cable? Because it seems to be very low quality.

Or would it be the cabinet itself? I am honestly betting on the input on my Ibanez EDB 400 but i would like to hear someone elses opinion first.
 
#2
Another cab would certainly help. A 4-10 would disperse more sound than another 1-15, in affect more volume. In the meantime, try putting your cab on some milk crates to get the sound closer to your ear.

Instrument cables always need to be shielded or you may hear your local AM radio stations playing thru your amp. Cables crap out so you should replace them if you
suspect it shorting out.

The speaker cable from your amp to your cab should never be shielded as this can affect the sound quality. Plus speaker cables are usually heavier wire gauges than instrument cables for higher current output.

Check your instrument jack by tugging on the chord and listen for crackles. that should tell you if you need the contacts re-soldered. Do the same with the cables at both ends to determine if the cable is faulty also.


Your rig seems like it should be good enough for stage and practice monitoring, but remember this, Most semi/professional gigs usually use a D.I.( if your lucky your bass amp will have a mic on it also) thru the P.A. for your bass tone so your amp is really irrelevant to what the audience will hear.:hmm:
 
#3
buddysilver said:
Ok first off my rig consists of:
A GK Backline 600 Head
A Hartke VX Cab (w/tweeter) 300 watts at 8 ohms
Pretty decent for a 15 year old :bassist:

It seems my rig has a very nice low end to it but it always seems to flatten/crap out on the mid to high notes. And the volume does not seem to be as high as it should. I do not understand what causes this.

Would it be the instrument cable? I have a Planet Waves cable (with the shielded end inside the amp) but might even be the input on my bass, because the PA I use at band practice even has problems volume wise with my instrument.

Would it be the amp cable? Because it seems to be very low quality.
Click to expand...
The simple fact is that a 1x15 will only go so loud. For high levels you need two. Forget about the cables, unless totally defective replacing them will make no difference.
 
#4
billfitzmaurice said:
The simple fact is that a 1x15 will only go so loud. For high levels you need two. Forget about the cables, unless totally defective replacing them will make no difference.
Click to expand...

This /\/\/\


I think you are expecting too much from the rig. The Backline 600 only puts out 300 wats @ 4 ohms. Running an 8 ohm cab, you are probably around 150-175 watts. Very easy to run out of gas when trying to get loud.
 
#5
billfitzmaurice said:
The simple fact is that a 1x15 will only go so loud. For high levels you need two. Forget about the cables, unless totally defective replacing them will make no difference.
Click to expand...

If your 600 head will drive 2 cabs, an additional 1 x 15 or a 2 x 10 will def give up more volume. You just need to watch the Ohm matching.

If the 600 will drive only 1 cab, I recommend trading in the 1 x15 for a 2 x 10 or even a 4 x 10.
 
#7
I forgot to mention that the G-K 600 head is not a powerhouse: it puts out only 300 watts @ 4 ohms and probably only 175 watts @ 8 ohms.

In my experience, bass amps (w/o PA support) don't get seriously loud untill you are pumping at least 500 watts into at least 40" of speakers.

There are exceptions like Mark Bass and Aquilar, but they are unaffordable to most bass players.
 
#8
I run a Behringer BXR1800H (180 watts - 4Ohms) into a 1x15 + tweeter loaded cab. It's a vintage Black Widow 15 in there, and believe me, it gets plenty loud, and it's plenty transportable.

Fact is, this is about all you need unless you are trying to make hordes of oncoming military troops shart themselves. While it's great to play loud on a large stage in a huge venue, it's much better to have everyone play at a much more cohesive volume so you can hear what is going on. A) You're less likely to develop tinnitis in your old age (as I have), and B) you're going to have a much better control over dynamic phrasing in your music.

But if you really need something with more punch and volume, because your band refuses to let the FOH do it's job, then my recommendation is to replace your 8ohm 15 with a 4 ohm and get the full 300 watts out of your head. A little less expensive than purchasing a new cabinet, and if you buy a really good speaker, you'll find that it lasts a good, long time.

Also be aware of where you are playing. Each room and speaker placement presents it's own challenges and unique issues. Try to place your amp backed up to a wall, and over the venue's basement or on a bandstand if you can. And try standing a few more feet from your amp. Your frequencies are not going to develop their maximum push at the same distance a guitar will.

Hope that helps.
 
#9
buddysilver said:
Ok first off my rig consists of:
A GK Backline 600 Head
A Hartke VX Cab (w/tweeter) 300 watts at 8 ohms
Pretty decent for a 15 year old :bassist:

It seems my rig has a very nice low end to it but it always seems to flatten/crap out on the mid to high notes. And the volume does not seem to be as high as it should. I do not understand what causes this.

Would it be the instrument cable? I have a Planet Waves cable (with the shielded end inside the amp) but might even be the input on my bass, because the PA I use at band practice even has problems volume wise with my instrument.

Would it be the amp cable? Because it seems to be very low quality.

Or would it be the cabinet itself? I am honestly betting on the input on my Ibanez EDB 400 but i would like to hear someone elses opinion first.
Click to expand...

As others mentioned, the amp rating and ohms and speaker size/ohm rating. Make sure you don't have an uber-long cable which will suck tone and high-end. The placement of speaker cab in a room and acoustics have an incredible effect on how things sound. This is also true for what the cab is placed on and/or how high off the ground it is. Also, it is very possible it could be the bass electronics/pickups itself. I sold an Ibanez bass because the output/volume in certain ranges of the instrument was inconsistent and proved to be unmanageable for practical performance since I play most of the neck in some way during any show. If I recall, it was the mid-high register.

Lastly, be wary of the relationship between volume and your hearing. As you play at loud volumes, your ear get accustomed to that volume and what is actually pretty loud just doesn't seem loud any more. And then tinnius sets in, as you continue to boost the volume to make it "feel" loud again. I'm often of the thought that what is interpreted as "amp's lack of volume and/headroom" is a phenomenon actually rooted in hearing and how it reacts to consistently high volume that is encountered in both practice and performance situations.
 
#10
How is your EQ set? While I'd concur that a 4 ohm speaker is in order, I'd first start with trying to EQ what you currently have to make it work.

The fact that you mention "my rig has a very nice low end to it but it always seems to flatten/crap out on the mid to high notes" leads me to suspect an overzealous use of bass boost or perhaps excessive mid-scooping. Either of these two would yield a useable tone at low levels that craps out when the volume level gets punched up a notch.
 
#11
^^^This too. I heard this phenomenon at a live Duncan Sheik show. The bassist overboosted the bass on his (active) Stingray, and by extension, the high end (which IS nice on a Stingray), and the even-speaking nature of the Stingray across the spectrum was lost. This could also just as easily happen on the amp as well.
 
#12
Thunderthumbs73 said:
^^^This too. I heard this phenomenon at a live Duncan Sheik show. The bassist overboosted the bass on his (active) Stingray, and by extension, the high end (which IS nice on a Stingray), and the even-speaking nature of the Stingray across the spectrum was lost. This could also just as easily happen on the amp as well.
Click to expand...

I've done this, quite recently actually. While trying to control the craptastic sound I was getting back at me through the monitors, I ended up hurting the out-front sound... Bad judgment on my part. :scowl:

Anyway, if this helps the OP any - When I had only a GK 400RB and a single Ampeg 410HE, I soon realized I just didn't have the power to keep up with my new band's PA system, so what did I do? I turned the cabinet around, facing me from the front of the stage, and kicked it back so that it was firing at me straight on. By doing this and letting the FOH system carry the bass to the crowd, life got MUCH easier, and my rig became quite usable again.
 
#13
If you want to be louder I would recommend trading your 1x15 for a 4x10 cab. It will be similar size and weight but will move a lot more air.

However, if you like the sound of a 1x15, do as BFM says and just add another.

Other than that - just boost your mids.
 
#14
I've been running a backline 600 into a 4 ohm 2x12 avatar cab for years and have never had any issue with volume.

As mentioned above, either get a second 8 ohm cab to run with your existing cab or a stand alone 4 ohm cab with more speakers and you'll be rocking. If that's not loud enough, the guitars, keys etc. really do need to turn down before you guys go deaf.
 
#15
Two thoughts: That is a entry-level rig, but I would have *killed* for it at age 15.

Second: TURN DOWN. I know, you think your ears will live forever, but they will NOT. If you find that you and your guitar can't hear over the drums, tell the drummer to mellow out! Good drummers play with *dynamics*.
 

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