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Why does your bass sound like that?

#22
jeff arddun said:
I've gotten nothing but compliments on my sound with a VT Bass. I guess it's only as good as the guy turning the knobs on it though.....
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:D

The problem using old flats (which I've done for many years) is that they don't produce as wide a frequency range as new rounds. Since it's a whole lot easier to get a good FOH mix by subtracting frequencies than trying to add what isn't there of course soundmen are gonna have a hard time especially if their rig is deficient in any way....and most PA rigs are when it comes to being able to dedicate a graph or parametric EQ to the bass.
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that's more of a problem with soundmen not being able to think out of the box imho. we have a sort-of regular soundman who went through a freak-out period with me when i started using flats more often because he didn't like the sound i was going for. he's a big fusion/smooth jazz guy and he likes stuff like you'd hear on smooth jazz records.

I've never looked at my bass amp as my bass amp. Because it's what the audience hears he PA is my real bass amp. Sometimes you have to compromise your stage sound to get your sound to the audience. I'm not saying put on steel roundwounds. I'm saying when you play through a PA all the time and money you spent on the sound outta yer bass rig can be very far removed from what is possible for the PA to get to the audience....sometimes you gotta let go of certain ideas you've held dear. No easy or universal solutions but it's something you need to seriously consider if you give a sh!t what the audience hears.
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me, i absolutely look at my bass as my bass amp, and i tell soundmen that if they duplicate what i'm hearing out of my amp, the bass will sound perfect in the mix for our style of music. and it always does. it's only when they go off the chart that the mix starts to suffer :D
 
#24
JimmyM said:
:
me, i absolutely look at my bass as my bass amp, and i tell soundmen that if they duplicate what i'm hearing out of my amp, the bass will sound perfect in the mix for our style of music. and it always does. it's only when they go off the chart that the mix starts to suffer :D
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You like like to mic yer cabs, right? The reason I asked if the OP was using a DI is that I don't think it's reasonable to expect a soundman to get an "outside the box" sound out front unless you give him the whole equation of pickup+strings+amp....which equals using a mic. When you DI yer bass the PA whether you like it or not becomes (as far as the audience hears) your bass amp. Ain't no way, no how DIing straight to the board is gonna do "Geezer meets Jack Bruce" anymore than a Gibson humbucker with dead flats through a super clean rack rig with a hi-fi cab is gonna do it.
 
#25
jeff arddun said:
You like like to mic yer cabs, right? The reason I asked if the OP was using a DI is that I don't think it's reasonable to expect a soundman to get an "outside the box" sound out front unless you give him the whole equation of pickup+strings+amp....which equals using a mic. When you DI yer bass the PA whether you like it or not becomes (as far as the audience hears) your bass amp. Ain't no way, no how DIing straight to the board is gonna do "Geezer meets Jack Bruce" anymore than a Gibson humbucker with dead flats through a super clean rack rig with a hi-fi cab is gonna do it.
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my DI is post eq, post gain structure, etc. It's more hifi than if I mic-ed my cab, but still, it's pretty dirty
 
#26
Just curious if the OP has done any recent recordings at rehearsal/FOH or off the board?

Possibly your dead strings have deteriorated more than you think and are not sounding like you think they sound or they used to sound.

Also, I suggest a wireless setup so you can go FOH during sound check/gig to hear what's coming from the PA vs. your rig.

I'm just sayin'....no downside to looking into things, doing a few tests and checking out the results.
 
#27
blendermassacre said:
my DI is post eq, post gain structure, etc. It's more hifi than if I mic-ed my cab, but still, it's pretty dirty
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Still takes yer speakers outta the equation and that's gonna make a huge difference to yer FOH sound. Giving him a post signal may also be hurting your sound too. The EQ for your cab on stage can be RADICALLY different from what you yourself would dial up if you could hear the FOH sound. Truth.
 
#29
jeff arddun said:
You like like to mic yer cabs, right? The reason I asked if the OP was using a DI is that I don't think it's reasonable to expect a soundman to get an "outside the box" sound out front unless you give him the whole equation of pickup+strings+amp....which equals using a mic. When you DI yer bass the PA whether you like it or not becomes (as far as the audience hears) your bass amp. Ain't no way, no how DIing straight to the board is gonna do "Geezer meets Jack Bruce" anymore than a Gibson humbucker with dead flats through a super clean rack rig with a hi-fi cab is gonna do it.
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wouldn't be the way i'd get it done, but unfortunately it's a di world out there, so unless you have the clout to demand things from a soundman, i think it's a necessary evil to have a method of getting that sound through a di.
 
#30
jeff arddun said:
You like like to mic yer cabs, right? The reason I asked if the OP was using a DI is that I don't think it's reasonable to expect a soundman to get an "outside the box" sound out front unless you give him the whole equation of pickup+strings+amp....which equals using a mic. When you DI yer bass the PA whether you like it or not becomes (as far as the audience hears) your bass amp. Ain't no way, no how DIing straight to the board is gonna do "Geezer meets Jack Bruce" anymore than a Gibson humbucker with dead flats through a super clean rack rig with a hi-fi cab is gonna do it.
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It depends on the bass rig set-up. My GK has the option of DIing pre or post eq. So, I can let the soundguy add color or I can color it first and then send it and let him do what he will. I would think that a decent sound guy would hear what I'm sending him post-EQ and just tweak it for his purposes rather than trying to change it just for the sake of his/her preference.

I've often wished that I could detach myself from my body during soundcheck to hear what's really going on out there.
 
#31
good arguments all around, but anybody who suggests boiling strings trying to make a casady bass more trebly has no idea what that bass is for. (hint: it ain't marcus miller tones)
 
#32
JimmyM said:
unless you have the clout to demand things from a soundman, i think it's a necessary evil to have a method of getting that sound through a di.
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I'm with you on that one, and having a good DI that you have some control over (and how to use it) is a great start to translating your sound to the house. I always ask for a mic, and 70% of the time they use a DI ..:rolleyes:

I'd say that the main problem lies in that what many expect a soundman to be able to achieve is often beyond their capabilities due to a number of factors: experience, gear, attitude, logistics, or a combination thereof. On the other side of the coin, many musicians have unreasonable or impossible expectations from a soundman due to these factors on their part.

In a perfect world we could all have our sound delivered to the PA just as we like it, and a perfect monitor mix. In reality, and to various degrees, there are way to many parts to the equation. Knowing how to, and when not to, raise issues goes a long way. If either party is a dick about things the overall show suffers.

How much can one expect from a house guy doing five bands crammed into a night?

I almost lost my composure at Symphony Hall in Boston .. playing upright in one of the best sounding rooms in the world, and they wouldn't put a mic on the bass .. they made me get my amp and run direct! !!?? The band huddled backstage to come up with a plan and I actually unplugged at the downbeat, the drummer switched brushes, and the singer backed waaaay off the mic and we played acoustic to 2000 people. Hell, even the guitar player got quiet! Turned out to be one of my favorite performances ever! Man, that piano they have is unbelievable.
 
#34
jeff arddun said:
Still takes yer speakers outta the equation and that's gonna make a huge difference to yer FOH sound. Giving him a post signal may also be hurting your sound too. The EQ for your cab on stage can be RADICALLY different from what you yourself would dial up if you could hear the FOH sound. Truth.
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Exactly right, you eq your amp to compensate for the speakers non-linear response to get your sound out of your speaker.

The post eq DI is your sound MINUS your speakers quirks.

Its only your sound if you have a relatively flat boutique cab.

Randy
 
#40
topcat2069 said:
JTBAWA (just to be a wiseass)

Know what ya get when you have 32 sound mix guys in a room together??








a full set of teeth:hiding:
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RustyAxe said:
My bass sounds just the way I want it to sound. Now, if only the freekin' sound man could make it sound that way through FOH. Who cares what the sound man thinks it should sound like?
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jeff arddun said:
You guys worry about this sh!t way too much. Soundmen aren't any different from drummers. With a bad one you can't say anything that will make a difference and with a good one you don't need to say anything.
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You guys might want to read the TB "sound guy" policy before continuing with these type of comments: :eyebrow:http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624742
 

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