Why is bass turned down so much in rock music?

[bryan fung]

I'm starting to learn bass and I now have been intentionally listening to the bass lines in songs (with headphones) and found that the bass is barely present unless i'm listening to a song that is produced with bass clearly in the forefront (Lizzo's - About Damn Time is a good example of a bass line being in the forefront).
I'm a giant fan of Dream Theater, and I KNOW John Myung is an amazing player, but unless I listen hard for his lines, i can't pick him out. All while the guitar riffs and drum lines are featured everywhere

This makes it hard to listen to songs. I have to REALLY pay attention otherwise i'll just miss things.

In a real life concert venue, the bass is all you'll hear. But in recordings, or a youtube video, you barely hear bass in rock songs.

 

[WRM]

I'm not sure how they do it, but see if you can find "Isolated Bass" tracks of the songs you want to learn.

e.g.

 

[bryan fung]

I'm not sure how they do it, but see if you can find "Isolated Bass" tracks of the songs you want to learn.

e.g.

I actually like try to listen to instruments with the rest of the song because it gives me context and I understand why something is played the way it is.

but yeah, if i want to dig way deep into the bass line itself, i'd listen to something like this

 

[Nickthebass]

I'm not sure how they do it, but see if you can find "Isolated Bass" tracks of the songs you want to learn.

e.g.

The Moises app does a good job of separating out parts.

Another trick is the pitch the whole track up an octave, the bass line becomes much more audible - just ignore the chipmunking of everything else! I use Anytune for this all the time. (You can also slow the track down or move it into a new key if you want.)

I use free versions of both apps.

 

[ThudThudThud]

I actually like try to listen to instruments with the rest of the song because it gives me context and I understand why something is played the way it is.

but yeah, if i want to dig way deep into the bass line itself, i'd listen to something like this

The older guys and gals here will remember having to keep moving the stylus on the album to go back over parts they were trying to learn. Helps with ear training, but can take you down some blind alleys.
Use both options.

 

[LiptonJigglers]

I can't agree with the sentiment "in a real life concert venue, the bass is all you'll hear."
Not the case around here.
I've lost count the amount of times I've gone to a gig (at least once a week) I've gone right up front to check out the bass rig and when they start playing...... blugh. It's all mids and top end. All bass has been taken out either by the performer or the sound engineer or both. There's no guts at all.
What should be a hard rocking energetic driving music is reduced to wimpy namby pamby patheticness (but it is 2023 right?)
The bassist might as well not be there.

 

[mambo4]

Listen to music recorded in the 1970s. They knew how to mix the entire band for playback on crappy radios. Sometime in the 1990s the general asthetic of mixing changed, with the bass guitar buried by super phat kick drum sounds, seven string guitars, and synth lines

 

[MonetBass]

Myung was notoriously mixed and EQ'ed down in Dream Theater's mixes early on. Why, I have no clue. But let's not generalize; there are many rock albums where the bass is prominent.

 

[lermgalieu]

Some rock songs sound better with the bass lower/more something you would notice if removed than something you notice as present, if that makes sense. However, that isn't true on all rock songs (a lesson Metallica learned the hard way).

 

[Mastermold]

Listen to music recorded in the 1970s. They knew how to mix the entire band for playback on crappy radios. Sometime in the 1990s the general asthetic of mixing changed, with the bass guitar buried by super phat kick drum sounds, seven string guitars, and synth lines

70's rock, funk, R&B, Disco -- bass, bass and more bass! The music was better too.

 

[portpc]

70's rock, funk, R&B, Disco -- bass, bass and more bass! The music was better too.

Yes - The bass drove the song and therefore the result was often something memorable and timeless. 1970's crappy radio pop was a treasure trove of great songs / bass lines.
I was reminded of that most recently after Andy Rourke of the Smiths passed. For all that acts' quirks the bass propelled the songs in the mix in the same fashion.

 

[salmon256]

While it is true many hits and popular songs lack bass at times, many other songs will have a nice present bass in it. I think it's extremely subjective, many people say metal lacks bass, to an extent maybe, but go listen to early Gorguts, Black Sabbath, Early Cannibal Corpse, Cryptopsy, Dio, Korn, Electric Wizard, Band Maid, ok ok, you get my point I hope, you honestly have to look for it IMO. I can't answer why a lot of rock lacks bass, some members here have answer and I know there were some technical reasons why, but the places you least expect to hear bass... you hear bass!

Also another thing, listen to live or older albums of bands, you will hear a more bass heavy for sure in early years of band. Also it's super subjective to say all rock, YES has lots of bass, Rush has lots of Bass, Led Zeppelin has some nice bass (I'm not a real fan of them.) And listen to some blues if you get a chance, maybe not the most bass heavy but Albert King with Dunn on the bass is amazing and also Freddie King "My Feeling for the blues" Good stuff. Also nothing wrong with feeling the bass, SRV had a nice bass with a feel in his songs, and listen to some lesser know guys J.J Cale man the bassist kills on it, oh if you want some Black Keys type stuff go listen to Junior Kimbrough ASAP, that bass is AWESOME.

In my ramble is, if you are looking for bass songs go look up "This insert genre with bass guitar" go on a Reddit for that genre and look it up or on here you'll find tons of "this genre with lots of bass post" or with whatever bass instrument dominates in that genre. You gotta look for it IMO. Good luck and have a great day.

 

[FunkHead]

I'm starting to learn bass and I now have been intentionally listening to the bass lines in songs (with headphones) and found that the bass is barely present unless i'm listening to a song that is produced with bass clearly in the forefront (Lizzo's - About Damn Time is a good example of a bass line being in the forefront).
I'm a giant fan of Dream Theater, and I KNOW John Myung is an amazing player, but unless I listen hard for his lines, i can't pick him out. All while the guitar riffs and drum lines are featured everywhere

This makes it hard to listen to songs. I have to REALLY pay attention otherwise i'll just miss things.

In a real life concert venue, the bass is all you'll hear. But in recordings, or a youtube video, you barely hear bass in rock songs.

Every one’s ears are different. I can hear the bass just fine in 99% of rock music. However I have heard other people with your same complaint.
I actually have the opposite problem. All I hear is mostly bass to the point where I don’t know many lyrics. luckily I can just turn lyrics on in ITunes and read them as I play/sing

 

[Five or Six]

Listen to music recorded in the 1970s. They knew how to mix the entire band for playback on crappy radios. Sometime in the 1990s the general asthetic of mixing changed, with the bass guitar buried by super phat kick drum sounds, seven string guitars, and synth lines

After "hair bands" went away so did a bunch of bass output. Up until that time it was right there with the rest of the music. That's when rock was real. IMHO, rock has lost its edge and I'm not sure what its future is?

 

[Micha84]

Well, let's be honest: THE defining part of rock music in general is the guitar. So, in the great majority of rock songs, the bass is merely there to support the guitar riff and is mixed as such. If it doesn't contribute anything important to the song, it doesn't have to stand out in the mix.

This is coming from a guy who loves rock music, by the way, but the bass definitely has other places to shine.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

The issue is dependant to how you are listening to the music, streaming songs are compressed so bass losses out in the mix, CDs are also compressed but not as much as streaming, but bass still loses out...now vinyl, that has a broad spectrum of range, add in the amp and any graphic, good speaker and bass jumps at you...even if you are not even in the room. Learning to hear bass is a skill that will develop, much like a band leader/MD/ conductor that can hear someone out of tune, or not playing a part correctly, the more you listen the better we become at it.
I grew up learning to play in the 60s and 70s ( that should read started to play as i am still learning) so i have no real issues hearing bass, or feeling it...different times different skill sets and yes i was lift the needle over and over again guy, as well as free wheeling the record with my finger just to slow down tricky parts.

 

[ColinR]

I'm generalizing here, but all or most of this was going on: This problem seemed to start back in the late 80's with then mostly the trash/death/underground metal bands. A combination of no studio budgets and in this genre, an overwhelming amount of guitar players that thought they were bass players. Guitars tuned down, Eq's set to scoop, all power chords, and the parts themselves were kinda what bass players would normally play within the framework of those songs. Layers and layers of it. Throw in garbage bass tones and bassists who basically duped the rhythm parts and massive double kick - they was no sonic space for bass guitar. The idea that your tone didn't have to sound perfect by itself to fit really good in the band situation was not in mind. There were exceptions, and some good ones, but for the most part it was a comedy of errors.

Then the studio techs - kinda like alot of sound guys at dive bars. No clue how to mix bass, or what the bass does for that matter. And that leads me to Egos.... Guitars on 11 and everything else on 3. Or Lars. Enough said.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I'm starting to learn bass and I now have been intentionally listening to the bass lines in songs (with headphones) and found that the bass is barely present unless i'm listening to a song that is produced with bass clearly in the forefront (Lizzo's - About Damn Time is a good example of a bass line being in the forefront).
I'm a giant fan of Dream Theater, and I KNOW John Myung is an amazing player, but unless I listen hard for his lines, i can't pick him out. All while the guitar riffs and drum lines are featured everywhere

This makes it hard to listen to songs. I have to REALLY pay attention otherwise i'll just miss things.

In a real life concert venue, the bass is all you'll hear. But in recordings, or a youtube video, you barely hear bass in rock songs.

Dream Theater is notorious for their very unfriendly bass mixes. Myung is supposedly a great player- but you can hardly hear the guy.

 

[ColinR]

Dream Theater is notorious for their very unfriendly bass mixes. Myung is supposedly a great player- but you can hardly hear the guy.

His tone is usually terrible, not always, but mostly. He also tends to dupe alot of the guitar parts. They may be hard to play, but they do not stand out or really help the music any. And in that band, he should be able to play just about anything he wants. Maybe thats the problem.

 

[Rojd]

Maybe a lot of rock music songs were written by lead guitarists as a platform for them to stand on to spotlight their wanking.