Well that's scientific!
As I said, if someone got the idea that they wanted to get new pickups, there had to be a reason.
Same is true of someone wanting a new bass or amp or girlfriend!
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Why is Fender so Popular?
- Thread starter ArpeggiFish
- Start date
- Status
Well that's scientific!
As I said, if someone got the idea that they wanted to get new pickups, there had to be a reason.
Same is true of someone wanting a new bass or amp or girlfriend!
Hey, not everyone is going to be an innovator. That's just not how the real world works. And then again, those that are innovators, may not actaully be entertaining to listen to.
Hey, I'll do some real "OUT" solo avante guard stuff for you if you'd like. Don't know if anyone would pay to see it though. Maybe I'll even play with my toes. That would be different now wouldn't it?
The one thing that most of the players out there that I've played with out in the real world had in common was...
They were entertaining the audience.
That's our job, and what we get paid to do.
Most of them seem to do it with fairly utilitarian and unmodified instruments too.
Maybe you could suggest a nice bass for me to play that has a totaly unique sound, that no one has ever heard, that will work well with my band.
I'm all ears.
Untill I hear something that sounds better, I'll be just another mind numb, unispired, too stupid to know any better guy playing a P bass.
Fender is the well from which all things sprang. For further proof check out where Marshall got the basics for his amps.
My Fender plays and sounds great. That's why I bought it. It has those classic vintage tones you can get out of it, I know other bass brands can do this, but I thought, I like that vintage sound, why not go with someone who has been doing it for many many years.
Well usually the innovators get copied by other people and then the copiers get well known.
But I think all the innovators are very entertaining.. like Hendrix, and The Beatles, Zep, Yes, etc.
Hey, I'll do some real "OUT" solo avante guard stuff for you if you'd like. Don't know if anyone would pay to see it though. Maybe I'll even play with my toes. That would be different now wouldn't it?
I like music that sounds like music, and I like basses that sound like basses. I think the fine line is someone coming up with original ideas and not trying to sound like everything they hear... not saying you are doing that, or even anyone here. I'm just being general.
It's like with singers. You take someone that has a distinctive voice... let's say Elton John. You hear him and you know who it is. Now listen to half the singers in modern rock bands. They all sound like Eddie Vedder even if they don't know it! It's good to have influences, but at some point you have to come up with your own style and sound... or not. Some people like blending in.
The one thing that most of the players out there that I've played with out in the real world had in common was...
They were entertaining the audience.
That's our job, and what we get paid to do.
What's entertaining changes over time. I used to like bands playing just based on the music and their playing. I remember watching the Grammy Awards once and Prince was on. I turned to by brother and said "you didn't need to be able to dance to be in a band!"
What entertains me is something that doesn't sound like everything else, and I also like killer chops. So what's entertaining varies from person to person. To some it's just the singer, which is why that's all you see on these American Idol shows.
Most of them seem to do it with fairly utilitarian and unmodified instruments too.
"Most of them" is an unqualified statement. You don't know what these people are using, plus what's on recording is not always what they play. If someone is on TV playing a Jazz bass, youhave no idea what pickups are in there. Some people go for vintage instruments because they have the idea that they sound better.
I read every interview in Bass Player every month. The younger players just use what ever thy have, while the older guys tend to mod things. The longer you play, you more you realize what you want and don't want from a bass. I outgrew my Rics, but that doesn't mean they aren't great basses. I also outgrew a more modern Ibanez. It was all the things about these different basses that I didn't like that led me to make my own basses. I just put the stuff that I liked.
But I also love stuff like Fender P basses, Gibson EB-3's and EB-2's, Mosrites, Vox, and anything weird. They aren't all usable, but I appreciate them for what they are.
That's for you do discover. As far as what works with your band... your sound is what works with your band. That's what sets you apart from anyone else. If you and your band want to sound like some other band, who's going to notice you?
I used to be a big Stanley Clarke fan, and tried to sound exactly like him. Then I thought about what if I got to meet him, told him I was a bass player, and he said "Cool, here, play something" and handed me his bass. Did I want to do a (bad) imitation of him (or even a good imitation) or do something original? I'd hope to do something he would like, but wasn't his ideas.
And it's not just your tone... it's what notes you play. There are a lot of things that will fit into a song and not be cliché.
Above all, remember that when the Fender bass came out, a lot of people hated the whole idea, and some upright players still do!
Or when round wounds came out... some people still hate them. Chuck Rainey said he uses them, but never uses that "rock and roll" tone.
Look at Jack Bruce. I just loved that distorted tone he got live with Cream. So I got a Maestro fuzz and played through that. That tone doesn't fit much stuff, and my guitar layer hated it. Now you hear fuzzy bass all the time, because music has changed so that it fits into some styles now.
I like old skool bass tones... I'm old skool myself! I'm as old as the P bass, so it's always existed to me. But when I started playing, people were very resistant to round wounds and a bright tone, or something that wasn't a P bass, or even not having your bass buried in the background. So yeah, I had a chip on my shoulder everytime someone looked at my bass case and said "Fender Bass?" No... Rickenbacker!
Now my tone from back then is pretty normal. Change happens... eventually.
I sure as hell do know what the guys and girls playing original music , that are contemporaries in the local scene are playing, as I talk gear with them often , and that would go for a lot of the touring bands that come through town too. Most everyone is playing stock instruments of the very utilitarian type. That's how it goes out where I'm playing for the most part.
Discovered it a LONG time ago.
It's a P bass, yet according to some, that's not good enough. You can't possibly be doing aything interesting with such an instrument. Guess I must just be a sheep following the heard.
That's o.k. 'cause I'm cool with that.Thanks for the advice though.
I was really hoping to be enlightened. Looks like I'll be sticking with the old P bass then.P.S. I was kind of hoping you'd recomend one of your B-1's.
Send me a pic if you ever get one of those together with a P p/u set up. Who knows... I might be interested if it sounded like a good P should.
Sometimes a brand or a body shape or some "je ne sais quoi" about an instrument just resonates with a person, and they identify with it. I have picked up MM's in stores for example, and I'm not criticizing a Stingray or a Stirling, but they just don't do it for me. I've picked up Fender Jazzes, Fender Precisions, Squiers, Mexicans, Japanese, American, Korean, etc. and call it whatever you want, I'm a victim of marketing or a blind sheep, or whatever you want, but they all feel like "home" for me. I'm a Fender guy, I can't help it. I see an old '51 and my heart starts beating faster. I see a black P with a black pickguard and a maple neck, and something happens. I see a 3TS P or J with rosewood, tort pickguard, and chrome covers, and my heart twists a little.
I play a J, and again, regardless of country of origin or reissue or deluxe or standard, it's a J. I play any P - same thing. For me, they're the only two choices I have, any other choice falls under one of those two options.
I play a J, and again, regardless of country of origin or reissue or deluxe or standard, it's a J. I play any P - same thing. For me, they're the only two choices I have, any other choice falls under one of those two options.
How about John Cage? Or Leonard Cohen? Or The Zs? Innovators, yes, and completely unlistenable IMHO.
It's an interresting quesion though. I would have asked it myself, if I didn't know it would turn into a big ugly flame war about why they suck, or why they're the best.
And you're right. It is like a harley. People seem to have this fascination with them which isn't necessarily justified, and will pay more money to get it (a lot more if you're talking about harleys)
I'd gladly play a fender if it suited me well, and I'd just as likely play something else if it suited me better.(Perhaps more likely, since I'm not paying the extra $ for the logo)
I ride an 86 GSX R-750. It fits me very well, so I'm comfortable, and IMHO you'd have trouble finding anything that a harley does better than my Suzuki.
OTOH, maybe a Harley(Fender) works better for you, and that's fine. When I went to buy my 5 string I just grabbed every one I could find which was in my price range regardless of brand. I bought the one that felt the best. It's an Ibanez BTB555.
I think maybe the reason people don't open threads "Why a suzuki" or "Why an Ibanez" is because they DO get it, and buy what they like, rather than what they think they're supposed to like.
some people like Fenders because they are the best basses for them. A lot more people like Fender basses because they've bought the marketing. Hopefully you're one of the former.
The "Fender sucks" mentality is probably mostly a reaction to smug fender players who think their stuff is better than yours because of the brand name. It's not necessarily a justified reaction, but understandable.
As for the "Harleys suck" mentality, it's probably more to do with the high percentage of harley riders who are jerks(to put it mildly). When I wave at a fellow motorcyclist on my way to work 90% of the guys on crotch rockets wave back. 90% of the guys on harleys don't. A few times they have, but sometimes only with one finger.
I guess it sucks getting lumped in with that crowd when you're one of the good 10%, I know I get pretty tired of getting lumped in with the obnoxious squids who think the roads are their racetrack too.
-Nick
I hope I'm one of the 'good' 10% that likes Fenders for the right reasons. Boy, I'd really hate to get lumped in with the bad ones. That would really put a dent in my self confidence, alright.
I book bands, and have met many bassists who play every kind of instrument under the sun. Not one ever displayed the juvenile opinions about Fender being the best or worst basses in the world encountered in forums often enough. Maybe it's because they care more about the way basses play and sound look to them than what other people impute about their motives or personality. The saddest thing I can think of is avoiding something because of what anyone else thinks. No, actually, even sadder is defining oneself by a brand of any kind, by assent or dissent.
Of course many people buy them because of marketing, brand recognition, hero wannabe-ism, etc, but that doesn't detract from their qualities and my enjoyment of them. If Hitler was gay and played one every day of his horrid life I'd still play mine out every gig.
BTW, I completely respect your opinion of them for your own use, I just can't relate to the assumptions you make about everyone else and their motives. Perhaps it is this that provokes such strong reactions. I despise people who stick to the speed limit when I'm driving behind them, but I'd be a right pillock if I insulted their behaviour or motives, n'est ce pas?
tradition, sentimental reasons, subjectives... I played lots and owned some of great Fender-likes ( Lakland, Celinder, Lull, Clover ) those are great instrument - lots of people says they are buildt better - probably they are - at least with closer attention,as Fenders are "mass produced" basses...still - like someone before said - something clicks right, my heart beats faster etc. also,none of above mentioned instruments sounds like Fender, thats might be pure subjective opinion, but playing is subjective thing, so... no matter how they are buildt great, how similar or the same pick ups configurations those basses has, even being "better" instruments for some - only Fender jazz sounds (and feels,and looks) like Fender jazz and only Fender P sounds like P. thanx.
back when i first stared playing bass I thought Fenders where overpriced junk. some time 2004ish I played on a jazz bass I liked. finally got one this past October. then got another one last week. I love my fenders, they are comfortable to play and I can get the sound I want out of them
I can't believe I subjected myself to the exceptionally poor grammar, spelling, and manners found in this thread.
Please accept my apologies for contributing my own reply to this mess.
imp
Please accept my apologies for contributing my own reply to this mess.
imp
What did they innovate?
I don't know the Z's... I remember hearing Cohen some when I was a teen when my older brother played me some stuff. I though it was OK, but not my thing. Some John Cage stuff hardly fits what I consider music. I think it's more of a performance art thing. 4′33″ for example. Four minutes thirty-three seconds without a note being played!
I can say the same about Brain Eno's ambient series, even though I enjoy most of everything else he did. I like Philip Glass too.
Now one of my all time favorite bass players, Ray Shulman from the band Gentle Giant played a P Bass. He's certainly an innovator. Anther all time fave is John Wetton. Another P bass player, and very innovative I think. They both also went out of their way to not make them sound like a P bass did at the time.
Heh. Don't know how I missed this the first time around!
Hey Glenn, you know those are linoleum dots. Honest. I guess Leo used what was on hand at that particular moment!
Count me as one who has nearly zero interest in Fender basses. With the variety that is available in bass guitars today I just choose to play something different.
I started getting serious about bass at a time (mid-'90s) when there was an explosion of new bass builders, with many of them 5 and 6-strings. When I decided to upgrade from the old Peavey T-40 I had owned for several years, I decided to go for a modern bass that was designed as a 5-string. Fender's 5s don't really do much for me - they just seem like they are meant to be 4-string instruments.
Although I don't feel the need for a Fender, I still do get amazed at times by how good they can sound when played by people who know how to get the best out of them.
I started getting serious about bass at a time (mid-'90s) when there was an explosion of new bass builders, with many of them 5 and 6-strings. When I decided to upgrade from the old Peavey T-40 I had owned for several years, I decided to go for a modern bass that was designed as a 5-string. Fender's 5s don't really do much for me - they just seem like they are meant to be 4-string instruments.
Although I don't feel the need for a Fender, I still do get amazed at times by how good they can sound when played by people who know how to get the best out of them.
I didn't used to know, but recently found out in the Clay Dot thread. I guess the term "linoleum dots" lacked appeal. It would be a good marketing challenge to hype up how something found on the kitchen floor makes a bass/guitar worth thousands.
Fender is my favorite brand, but I don't own any. I've never had a Fender bass because I prefer other necks and I didn't really care for the few Fender guitars I've had because of the necks and string spacing at the bridge, so I've gravitated to Fender copies.
They're a lot cheaper, fit me better, mostly use the same parts, and if you route them you're not ruining the resale value (because there wasn't any to begin with).
I guess the main reason I like Fenders (and copies) is because of their looks...classic styling, and the same model can easily have 10+ color combinations and each be beautiful.
Yep! One of my all time favorite slap tones is Michael Manson slapping the trash out of his Fender Jazz 5'er. I'm in the same boat with you about actually needing one for myself. I have some cool basses that take away my G.A.S. for a Fender Jazz.
- Status
