Well, aside from the Bruno Mars tunes, check out the bass part in the Puth tune "Attention." I think it's pretty hip for pop fare.
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And the jazzers from those days thought the same about pop stars, like Beatles, Kinks, and the Who were pop mind you, Yardbirds, is that their music was inane, compared to what came before, you know those who lauded Sinatra and so on. The pop music today is still like that. The K.I.S.S. principle. Keep It Simple Stupid. The tonality of the pop melodies and the cathcy hooks are basically the same. They sing "the white keys" still. You know the four chords that made a million. You've seen the YT flick where this group do a 30 minute medley of the same chord progression. And btw, it's still about love songs in one way or another.
To alter your headline and topic a bit "why are modern pop music so terrible" to my opinion and my taste that "pop music has always been terrible". Regardless of decade.
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Right, no argument there. But I took "it's a great time to be a solid bass player (paraphrase)" as implying that there's lots of opportunities outside of the highest level studios in LA (or wherever) to gig that kind of stuff, live, in a local club or venue, in a band in your town. I just don't think that's the case. It's definitely in the "recording industry" but I don't think it filters down to 95% of us here on TB. Now modern country, etc. on the other hand, does filter down. Lots of work.
I agree 99% but that's just me. In general,the relationship between chords and melody are the key to a great tune. I must also say that I love Eddie Grant's (not sure if that's correct) Electric Avenue which is basically an E chord. So it's not quite that simple when it come to rock music.
Burt Bacharach, Jim Webb , Lennon and McCartney, Fagen and Becker , Elmer Bernstein, Ennio Moricone , Bob Dylan etc. wrote some of the most amazing music I have ever heard. But that's me, not everyone, not necessarily you - but they are the writers I love the most. No one seems to reach their level.
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Beethoven and Bach were NOT exactly "pop" music, unfortunately. In Bach's case, he was a musical director for a church, and composed music intended for worship. "Every note for the Glory of God." Beethoven, like Mozart, wrote music usually commissioned by royalty, for royalty. This music was not intended to be played at home or necessarily enjoyed by the masses. However, there were folk tunes that were played and enjoyed by the common folk, and often played on different instruments (lute, guitar, whistle, etc) than those utilized by Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, et al.
Ellington was closer to real pop music, as he wrote music that was designed for dancing and utilized memorable (timeless) melodies and lyrical imagery. Ellington also happened to be a genius composer, had another genius composer to work with (Billy Strayhorn), and was a genius bandleader.
Mingus was also a great bandleader, composer, as well as musican, who should need no introduction to the members of this forum.
Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Rachmaninov, Ellington, Mingus, AS WELL AS The Beatles were MUSICAL INNOVATORS whose music will continue to exist as long as humanity continues to exist in this universe. This is true wether or not we consider any of these musical entities "pop" or not.
As I pointed out there is actually a big difference between modern pop and the music I mentioned in musical complexity and lyrical content. It's a lot more than whether or not there's distorted guitars. I'm also capable of objectively evaluating music. I know there are genres of music I don't enjoy, but I can still objectively determine if there is musicianship and thought behind it. Pop isn't a genre, and I'm not sure what you'd really call other than a quality music of any genre can have, and I know that regardless of the genre I don't like any of today's pop. Pop hip-hop, bubblegum pop, singer-songwriter pop, even metal pop. It isn't about what instruments are used it's about if it is thoughtfully composed, interesting, and engaging. Perhaps even a little challenging. That's refreshing and exciting, but listening to modern pop is like watching a bad horror movie: You literally know what's coming before it happens and it's always some tired old cliché.
Oh dear! That was a first! My good lord! Hear here! Although I am open to stand corrected, I've yet to meet, see or even hear of anyone do. I know of no one, haven't seen one as of yet, and it's my strong belief (by empirical proof) that it doesn't exist. I am not alone on this stance. Until I see one, and I haven't, not now either. Definitely not now. Even me, myself, I stated earlier that:
And thus, I don't trust anyone that states something like "I've been in two world wars, been around the world 5 times, participated in 3 blockbuster movies, so I know music objectively" and not acknowledging their own bias, prejudice and incusion. So, to answer you: No, you are definitely not capable of that, neither are me nor anyone else. We are all so full of bias, prejudice, and brainwashing so we can't tell whenever we evaluate anything objectively, be it music, color, art, film, theater, litterature or anything else. Try that with religion if you dare. Everyone is incused by the subjectivity of someone elses views and Welt anschauung , and it's mainly called Hegemony. Look that one up. And you're just the hegemon. But it's ok, you're not alone among all the other music journalists/critics out there. Cultural imperialism. Look that one up too.
This is a clear statement though. I agree with "that's just me" and so it's for everyone else. If we could apply that one to everything we state. I can't help but liking and disliking some music, but to go out and do a passionate hate campaign against music I don't like, seems like quite fluff... there's always going to be people that gets riled up by A N Y music of today. Hit list "modern" pop notwithstanding. I remember quite well when bands such as "Sepultura" came around, and all those 70s hard rock geezers balked at that stuff and said "hey it's not rock music anymore" and rested on their laurels, of "good old days" that the best music was made when THEY were in their youth, and hormons raging about...Sepultura wasn't pop by any means. Modern or not.
There are two branches developing, it seems. One that talks about the quality of the music and songwriting. This branch is more likely subjective in both analysis and consumption. i.e. every decade has crap music. The other branch has more to do with technology, and the industry's attempt to adapt - mixing, mastering, autotune, the necessity of a quick financial return in the digital age - all these contribute to phenomena like the loudness wars - which effectively destroyed any sort of nuance on pop 'radio'. This is unique to the past decade. There really isn't room for subjectivity on this matter. This isn't about 'get of my lawn' gripes.
Should be adjusted to "every decade has music that someone thinks is crap". Or even "there's always some crap music" regardless of decade or times? Almost unanimously, I've always heard people complaining that it was better before, in the decade they were growing up. I've never ever heard a 50-60 yeard old geezer say "oh, finally this decades, pop music is finally getting where I am at, all that came before was utter rubbish" . I e that someone thinks that finally "pop" music or musicians or consumers has been able to smarten up in some way or another.
Mind you that these loudness wars, and modern process, production techniques are by no means exclusive to pop music. Christ, I've even heard prog metal bands using backing tracks live, autotune gear, and other "enhancements". You know, "musicians music" where it should be slightly more of artistic merit to play everything live. They use it and are - mind you this - are not ashamed about it. Not the slightest. The actual end result, with the mastering techniques and so on, is by no means exclusive to modern pop. Rush "Vapor Trails" and Metallicas "Death Magnetic" anyone?
Just noticed this statement when it got quoted recently. I would not classify Beethoven and Bach as pop by any standard, for their generation or otherwise. I don't think it's possible to have a definition of "pop" that doesn't require the existence of a mass culture driven by technology (radio, record distribution, TV etc.). It doesn't have any concrete MUSICAL traits that establish what is or isn't "pop." Bach and Mozart composed not for a mass audience but for elite patrons in the church and among the nobility and royalty. Very different dynamic. By Beethoven's time the ticket-buying public was starting to become more of a factor, but it was still not a mass culture yet. By Mingus' time, on the other hand, a pretty clear line had emerged between pop culture and high art and it's clear which side he stood on. Apples and Oranges.
Oh dear! That was a first! My good lord! Hear here! Although I am open to stand corrected, I've yet to meet, see or even hear of anyone do. I know of no one, haven't seen one as of yet, and it's my strong belief (by empirical proof) that it doesn't exist. I am not alone on this stance. Until I see one, and I haven't, not now either. Definitely not now. Even me, myself, I stated earlier that:
And thus, I don't trust anyone that states something like "I've been in two world wars, been around the world 5 times, participated in 3 blockbuster movies, so I know music objectively" and not acknowledging their own bias, prejudice and incusion. So, to answer you: No, you are definitely not capable of that, neither are me nor anyone else. We are all so full of bias, prejudice, and brainwashing so we can't tell whenever we evaluate anything objectively, be it music, color, art, film, theater, litterature or anything else. Try that with religion if you dare. Everyone is incused by the subjectivity of someone elses views and Welt anschauung , and it's mainly called Hegemony. Look that one up. And you're just the hegemon. But it's ok, you're not alone among all the other music journalists/critics out there. Cultural imperialism. Look that one up too.
Well since you've devolved this to simply assuming I'm less intelligent than you and therefore am not capable of making valid points I suppose there's no point in trying to argue my point. Obviously no amount of evidence could possibly compensate for how naive I am.
