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Why is the bass inherently more rhythmic?

Maybe. But some instruments are intrinsically better suited to certain roles within a given music performance than others.

And yes, maybe a double bass can play the same lines as a violin - but why would you want it to when it already has it's own unique voice?

Here's the thing...nowadays it seems like half the players of an instrument (any instrument) want to play everything and be a one-man band. You see this all the time with the "bedroom virtuosos" who wow their friends when playing solo, but can't work within the context a band to save their lives. And we've all run into one or more of those. They're the ones that have played by themselves for so long that they can't get out of the habit of playing every note and filling in every millisecond of space. Put them in with four other musicians and they fall apart.

As far as putting things in "boxes," I don't see it that way at all. We now have an entire generation brought up with the unshakable belief that we're all completely equal in talents and abilities; and that we can do anything we want to - if we really want to.

Unfortunately, reality doesn't work that way. We're all different in the level of talent, ingenuity, and abilities we have. And while dedicated study and practice can improve things immensely, there's no guarantee it will. In some cases all the desire, dedication, and hard work in the world won't produce a superior result.

The same goes for musical instruments. They each have intrinsic roles they're particularly well suited for. That's why there are so many different instruments. So while it may be true that a double bass could play any line a violin could - once again, why would you want it to? Like that guy who could play Bach toccatas and fugues on a harmonica...interesting perhaps. But there are many much better suited and better sounding instruments to play Bach on. And they'll yield superior results with far less effort. So why would anyone bother, other than they're bored - or just decided to 'prove' it could be done?

This isn't to say we shouldn't be open to new things. Or that we shouldn't continue to push the envelope with our instrument. But I always thought it was far more effective use of time to build on an instrument's strengths rather than try to twist it into something it's not. Because all too often, it starts turning into little more than a collection of "party tricks" when you make a habit of it. I used to love Vic Wooten. Nowadays I can barely listen to him. He's an excellent bassist. Or was back when he was still playing bass. I really don't know what he's playing now - even if it is on a Fodera. (Feel free to disagree BTW. This is just my personal opinion about him.)

So no, I don't think it's a case that we musicians "need so much to put everything in little boxes and never ever try to leave them" at all. I think it's more that we understand our instruments well enough to know what roles they're each uniquely suited for. And we then move forward and act accordingly.

YMMV. :)

I don't beleive we are all equal but it is an instrument, a tool, to make musique. Sure it sounds low but whatever. I think we have so many different instrument because they produce a different "timbre" and so may be inspiring otherwise we would need one percussion, one high pitched instrument, one low pitch instrument and be done with it.

Why a DB player would take a violin part and play it ? Many solo music is played on various instrument in the classical world. Sure some of them make it a lot harder than it is on the original instrument for which it was written but still, it is a valid thing to do. Even Jaco did play stuff not intended to the bass so what ? He should have stuck to ride the root with matching rythm of the bass drum because this is the intended little box our instrument was created to do ?

Belà Fleck did learn a violin sonata and played it on his banjo and it is beautiful. I saw a woman play the Suite 6 from the Suite for Cello on a classical guitar and it sounded amazing. I saw a tuba player do Flight Of The bumblebee. In your line of thinking they wasted their time and talent on something that could be done with another instrument. I know there is a guy on the web that played classical piano music on bass using tapping to get it done, the result is beautiful but he has the sensitivity to put emotion in it. There is also a guy on the net who use his voice to do every instrument to amazing result. Why not ? It add to the instrument library and just prove the point that it is just an instrument, every "roles" can be done with whatever you have in your hand.

I always thought you could play drums on a piano, the melody with the drums, the chords on a bass and the bass line on a trumpet. Hell you can make music with an amplifyied cactus.

anyway I'm done
 
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Of course, my statement about other instruments being "strictly optional" was meant tongue-in-cheek. But the serious point, apropos to this thread, is just that this is an example of bass(es) covering the roles of melody, harmony, and rhythm. Granted that they use some electronic tools to accomplish this, but I don't think that takes anything away from the point.

Nope. It didn't. I was actually rather impressed with what they were doing even if it was fairly close to that trancy-electronic vibe which I'm not super keen on. I only wished much of it had more forward melodic momentum. But that's me. I was the one who once established a hard rule that nothing ever repeated more than four times in a row for my old band. And I usually tried for at least one key change (usually for the middle eight) in every song we wrote. But I have my own admittedly idiosyncratic tastes and ideas about what makes a song interesting. And what do I know anyway?

And like my Grandfather used to say me: "Assuming you're so smart and clever, how come you're not rich or famous?" :laugh:
;)
 
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I don't beleive we are all equal but it is an instrument, a tool, to make musique. Sure it sounds low but whatever. I think we have so many different instrument because they produce a different "timbre" and so may be inspiring otherwise we would need one percussion, one high pitched instrument, one low pitch instrument and be done with it.

Why a DB player would take a violin part and play it ? Many solo music is played on various instrument in the classical world. Sure some of them make it a lot harder than it is on the original instrument for which it was written but still, it is a valid thing to do. Even Jaco did play stuff not intended to the bass so what ? He should have stuck to ride the root with matching rythm of the bass drum because this is the intended little box our instrument was created to do ?

Belà Fleck did learn a violin sonata and played it on his banjo and it is beautiful. I saw a woman play the Suite 6 from the Suite for Cello on a classical guitar and it sounded amazing. I saw a tuba player do Flight Of The bumblebee. In your line of thinking they wasted their time and talent on something that could be done with another instrument. I know there is a guy on the web that played classical piano music on bass using tapping to get it done, the result is beautiful but he has the sensitivity to put emotion in it. There is also a guy on the net who use his voice to do every instrument to amazing result. Why not ? It add to the instrument library and just prove the point that it is just an instrument, every "roles" can be done with whatever you have in your hand.

All good points. And I probably overstated my case a bit.

My point was that there's far too much (IMO) desire "to be different" for no musically valid reason other than "to be different" when it comes to bass these days. Mostly because most of it isn't very good. At least to my ears - so take anything I'm saying here for what it's worth.

FWIW I'm a big fan of Bela Fleck. And I'll be the first to say what he does is quite amazing at times. Ditto his occasional cohort and double bass player Edgar Meyer, who attained near legendary status after he entered a bluegrass fiddling competition - and won. Or Jake Shimobukuro and where he's taken the ukulele. And I loved things like Switched on Bach in those early days when Wendy/Walter Carlos was playing a Moog synth as a Moog synth and not trying to make it all sound like a sampled instrument orchestra - which is something most synthesis projects tend to do today.

There's nothing intrinsically worthwhile in being "different" or "new." New and different don't automatically equate to being good or desirable. And a lot of times they're merely diversions. Something to do - just because we can. Which is fine. But that doesn't contribute much to good music or good performances. Many times the desire to be different is just a distraction - or an excuse - from mastering your craft as a bassist. And music is as much about craft as it is about art.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have no objection to somebody trying to take bass places it's never gone before. My problem is how so many places it does get taken to just don't work very well for it.

But again, this is all how it seems to me. So I could be wrong. But somehow... I don't think so.;)

I always thought you could play drums on a piano, the melody with the drums, the chords on a bass and the bass line on a trumpet. Hell you can make music with an amplifyied cactus.

anyway I'm done

Well yeah. Especially since the advent of MIDI. (kidding...just kidding)
 
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Why is the bass inherently more rhythmic?
It isn't.

Then why do people shake their bootys to the bass? I have never seen people shake their bootys to a guitar or singer. Also science has shown that low frequency sounds have more impact on the area of the brain that is associated with rhythm. Conversely the higher pitched musical sounds impact the area of brain that associates to melody.
 
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Then why do people shake their bootys to the bass? I have never seen people shake their bootys to a guitar or singer. Also science has shown that low frequency sounds have more impact on the area of the brain that is associated with rhythm. Conversely the higher pitched musical sounds impact the area of brain that associates to melody.

I would also add that the bass guitar also tends to play, more or less, in tandem with the drums (the KICK) that is also more conducive that "shake your booty" syndrome.
 
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Nope. It didn't. I was actually rather impressed with what they were doing even if it was fairly close to that trancy-electronic vibe which I'm not super keen on. I only wished much of it had more forward melodic momentum. But that's me. I was the one who once established a hard rule that nothing ever repeated more than four times in a row for my old band. And I usually tried for at least one key change (usually for the middle eight) in every song we wrote. But I have my own admittedly idiosyncratic tastes and ideas about what makes a song interesting. And what do I know anyway?

And like my Grandfather used to say me: "Assuming you're so smart and clever, how come you're not rich or famous?" :laugh:
;)
Taking this conversation to pm to avoid thread hijack....
 
I don't beleive we are all equal but it is an instrument, a tool, to make musique. Sure it sounds low but whatever. I think we have so many different instrument because they produce a different "timbre" and so may be inspiring otherwise we would need one percussion, one high pitched instrument, one low pitch instrument and be done with it.

Why a DB player would take a violin part and play it ? Many solo music is played on various instrument in the classical world. Sure some of them make it a lot harder than it is on the original instrument for which it was written but still, it is a valid thing to do. Even Jaco did play stuff not intended to the bass so what ? He should have stuck to ride the root with matching rythm of the bass drum because this is the intended little box our instrument was created to do ?

Belà Fleck did learn a violin sonata and played it on his banjo and it is beautiful. I saw a woman play the Suite 6 from the Suite for Cello on a classical guitar and it sounded amazing. I saw a tuba player do Flight Of The bumblebee. In your line of thinking they wasted their time and talent on something that could be done with another instrument. I know there is a guy on the web that played classical piano music on bass using tapping to get it done, the result is beautiful but he has the sensitivity to put emotion in it. There is also a guy on the net who use his voice to do every instrument to amazing result. Why not ? It add to the instrument library and just prove the point that it is just an instrument, every "roles" can be done with whatever you have in your hand.

I always thought you could play drums on a piano, the melody with the drums, the chords on a bass and the bass line on a trumpet. Hell you can make music with an amplifyied cactus.

anyway I'm done

Clef_de_fa,

I always like reading your comments. They add additional (and interesting) "shades"/parallels to our discussions.

When I read the OP's posting, I understood the word "rhythmic" as
1. relating to, or characterized by rhythm, and
2. recurring with measured regularity/repetitiously.

Now, if we take ONE of many descriptions of the word, GROOVE, we will find that
"rhythmic"
as a rhythm recurring with measured regularity/repetitious rhythm pattern - has a lot of things in common with
Groove
as "understanding of rhythmic patterning" ... that emerges from "carefully aligned concurrent rhythmic patterns";
therefore,
for some bass players,
"Groove – It’s THE most important aspect of what you do as a bass player. Sure, you might like shredding and playing a bunch of fancy stuff, but it’s your groove that will get you gigs consistently and make you the most popular person on the bandstand.
(read more here:
Bass Groove - The Most Overlooked Aspect - Become A Bassist )

Now, when you read that OP's posting, you interpreted it as,
"The bass guitar also could be used as a Soloing (or Experimental) Instrument."
And, of course, you are also correct about it.

I think we start arguing about two different things.
 
Um... What? :confused:

I truly believe that our TB forum is MUCH MORE about TALKING than listening, analyzing music, especially, listening to more complex music like you posted.
I can name those TB members (including you) who really PAY Attention, who really are INTERESTED in learning something new, something more complex, etc., but...
There are quite a few TB members with questions like "Why Should I learn Music Theory?", "Is music theory important?", etc...
Just see how many people commented in that thread.
Anyway, that's what I think.

.
 
Clef_de_fa,

I always like reading your comments. They add additional (and interesting) "shades"/parallels to our discussions.

When I read the OP's posting, I understood the word "rhythmic" as
1. relating to, or characterized by rhythm, and
2. recurring with measured regularity/repetitiously.

Now, if we take ONE of many descriptions of the word, GROOVE, we will find that
"rhythmic"
as a rhythm recurring with measured regularity/repetitious rhythm pattern - has a lot of things in common with
Groove
as "understanding of rhythmic patterning" ... that emerges from "carefully aligned concurrent rhythmic patterns";
therefore,
for some bass players,
"Groove – It’s THE most important aspect of what you do as a bass player. Sure, you might like shredding and playing a bunch of fancy stuff, but it’s your groove that will get you gigs consistently and make you the most popular person on the bandstand.
(read more here:
Bass Groove - The Most Overlooked Aspect - Become A Bassist )

Now, when you read that OP's posting, you interpreted it as,
"The bass guitar also could be used as a Soloing (or Experimental) Instrument."
And, of course, you are also correct about it.

I think we start arguing about two different things.

Not necesserly ... sure the bass is very good at pounding root note with a good rythm to drive the song espeically with a good drum pattern. But the bass can be more than just providing rythm, just like any other instrument can and must have rythm in order for the whole to be interesting.
 
Then why do people shake their bootys to the bass? I have never seen people shake their bootys to a guitar or singer. Also science has shown that low frequency sounds have more impact on the area of the brain that is associated with rhythm. Conversely the higher pitched musical sounds impact the area of brain that associates to melody.
They don't. They 'shake' to anything played in a rhythmical fashion. That does not necessarily have to be a bass.
 
They don't. They 'shake' to anything played in a rhythmical fashion. That does not necessarily have to be a bass.

I remember one sketch from Dave Chapell's show where he and John Meyer tried to make people dance with guitar playing ... this until they went into a black barber shop where drums was more what make them dance ... then add a piano and all the latino danced hahaha stupid and racist but it was funny nonetheless
 
1. They 'shake' to anything played in a rhythmical fashion.

The bass-lines in Pop ("Lite" Music - my personal term) Music usually (!!!) tend to play riffs, grooves "in a rhythmical fashion."
It's an established FACT - fait accompli -and REALITY whether I, or ANYBODY else, likes it or not.

And it does not matter if I or ANYBODY else wants to use the bass guitar as the Trumpet or the Piano, or the Rhythm Guitar, or the Violin, etc...

This thread has NOTHING TO DO with the bass as a LEADING SOLO INSTRUMENT.

The OP's question is about the bass guitar's (COMPING) role in/impact on the GROOVING rhythm section, and the physics of Low Sound Frequencies.

Bassline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Basslines in popular music often use grooves or "pulse", which are usually simple, appealing musical motifs or phrases that are repeated, with variation, throughout the song.
...basslines work along with the drum part and the other rhythm instruments to create a clear rhythmic pulse.

The type of rhythmic pulse used in basslines varies widely in different types of music...

The drums and bass both supply a rhythmic harmonic for the music, and the bass instrument supplies a grooves foundation with a bassline.
Despite all of the differences in the styles of bassline in most styles of popular music, the bass guitarist fulfills a similar role:
anchoring the harmonic framework and
laying down the beat (in collaboration with the drummer).

Once again,
This thread has NOTHING TO DO with the bass as a LEADING SOLO INSTRUMENT.
This thread DOES NOT ban or forbid any use of the Bass Guitar as the Piano, the Trumpet, the Rhythm Guitar, the Flute, etc...


That does not necessarily have to be a bass.

You are so right - 100% correct.
 
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Psychologically, it takes X number of waveform cycles for the ear to hear pitch, but only a single one to hear rhythm. As such, lower notes require more time for melodies to be heard in lower pitches (twice as long for octave down, even longer for lower) than higher pitched melodies. It's not timbral, but rather an inherent property of the human ear.

For fast runs, it is physically easier to discern in higher pitches than lower pitches.