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Double Bass Why isn't Bluegrass more popular?
- Thread starter Tom Lane
- Start date
What's my theory, you ask?
My theory is, bluegrass is just outdated, just like swing bands, polka music, Studebakers, corn cob pipes, and men wearing top hats or flip-open chain watches.
That's not to say that those things aren't fun. They can be lots of fun in the right setting of course (usually a themed setting). But those items won't ever appeal to the masses. They just won't. It is what it is.
+1
And I was in a bluegrass band, too!
Would still be in one if the guitar player had stuck around, but once he left the fiddler, banjo player and mandolin player all moved on.
Lurves me sum instroomenthol Bloogriss.
I'm also an ex-southerner who doesn't consider myself a bluegrass fan...until I hear someone do it really well. My thought is that it's a style that is hard to do well. When you hear someone talented like Steep Canyon Rangers do it, I personally find myself wondering why I don't listen to bluegrass all the time, but the thought of getting people together and making that music together stops me in my tracks.
Perhaps like jazz, as a performer and a listener, there is an investment in getting inside of that particular genre. It is also a very regional music (like jazz in a way) and I don't think always translates out of the region.
Perhaps like jazz, as a performer and a listener, there is an investment in getting inside of that particular genre. It is also a very regional music (like jazz in a way) and I don't think always translates out of the region.
I can tell you that compared to 'real' western swing (not the shuffle infected stuff most Texas bands play), bluegrass is pretty mainstream... I play in a western swing band that includes plectrum banjo, accordion and clarinet (in addition to fiddle, steel, and a rhythm guitarist who plays in the Freddie Green style). Done well, it's the happiest dance music in the world.
Sub'd. I live in Northern California and bluegrass is very popular but It's also an area comprised of alot of very small towns.
Same reason that "new country" doesn't sound like classic C&W. Whiny/twangy vocals scare off a lot of people. As do banjos
The most popular bluegrass acts are all non-traditional...Alison Krauss, Nickel Creek, etc.
Falcon Ridge is billed as a "folk" festival, heavy on modern singer/songwriters. Grey Fox is the biggest fest in the northeast US, there's a few others but outside of the festivals there's not a lot of live performances. You can hear a fair amount on college/public radio in the area.
In the words of one of my buddies who I had been bugging to come see us play, and who finally did - "Bluegrass may, more than any other genre, fail to have the energy of a live performance translate to a recording. You kept sending me links to stuff and I just didn't see the appeal. Now I do."
Bluegrass is like the blues, after a few songs you have pretty much heard everything that is going to be played the rest of the night. It's fun at first, but then it's just redundant. If you are the bassist on a blues or bluegrass gig, God love you. You're in for a long night. Trust me, I am speaking from experience.
I am another in agreement on the vocals, specifically the amount of "twang" therein being a turn-off to many. Like my loving wife. She likes some Newgrass, but even Allison Krauss and Union Station are on the border for her, even though she admit's that Dan Tyminski's vocals are great, sometimes they're too twangy. (Did he knock it out of the park on "Man Of Constant Sorrow" on the "Oh Brother Where Art Thou?" soundtrack? I could listen to that for days on end...)
As far as she's concerned, forget Flatt & Scruggs, Bill Monroe, Doc Watson, Ralph Stanley & Clinch Mntn Boys, or even Del McCoury. On the other hand, Strength In Numbers is one of her favorites, and I have an old New Grange CD that gets played a lot (love that disk! Tim O'Brien, you are the man!).
I personally love the old stuff. I love the super-twangy, super-tight 3 and 4-part vocal harmony. I can hear the bagpipes in there, I swear.
Everyone is saying that it's old music, which is ironic, because it isn't that old. It was invented in the 20th century, and is younger than jazz, and certainly much younger than blues. Now the roots of it comes from old-time music, old-time string bands, and that is older. I guess compared to rock 'n roll, bebop, and modern jazz though, it is old.
Oh the "Americana" kick these days is a bit tiresome. Some of the old hands I play with absolutely hate Mumford & Sons and all that stuff. Some of it is ok. The Avett Bros. are really good, actually, and it's very honest music. I think most of it is honest, can't fault it for being cynical, but a lot of it just isn't to my taste.
As far as she's concerned, forget Flatt & Scruggs, Bill Monroe, Doc Watson, Ralph Stanley & Clinch Mntn Boys, or even Del McCoury. On the other hand, Strength In Numbers is one of her favorites, and I have an old New Grange CD that gets played a lot (love that disk! Tim O'Brien, you are the man!).
I personally love the old stuff. I love the super-twangy, super-tight 3 and 4-part vocal harmony. I can hear the bagpipes in there, I swear.
Everyone is saying that it's old music, which is ironic, because it isn't that old. It was invented in the 20th century, and is younger than jazz, and certainly much younger than blues. Now the roots of it comes from old-time music, old-time string bands, and that is older. I guess compared to rock 'n roll, bebop, and modern jazz though, it is old.
Oh the "Americana" kick these days is a bit tiresome. Some of the old hands I play with absolutely hate Mumford & Sons and all that stuff. Some of it is ok. The Avett Bros. are really good, actually, and it's very honest music. I think most of it is honest, can't fault it for being cynical, but a lot of it just isn't to my taste.
I get the impression that a lot of those replying to the original question simply don't care for the bluegrass that they've heard. Personally, I can listen to Rhonda Vincent and Del McCoury for hours on end (and have, when driving) - but can only enjoy about 20 minutes of Bill Monroe or old fiddle tunes before I want to start drinking again. Nevertheless, there are devoted fans of the old (1940's era) bluegrass and I'm glad that they're out there; it keeps musicians working.
Technically, bluegrass is amazing stuff, instrumentally and vocally. You know the "blue" in "bluegrass" comes from its "blues" roots (i.e. blues music, pentatonics on steroids, etc.).
Unfortunately, it was largely played by Southerners with Southern accents, and an unfortunate (and ridiculous) negative stereotype came along with that.
Unfortunately, it was largely played by Southerners with Southern accents, and an unfortunate (and ridiculous) negative stereotype came along with that.
I was going to write something similar, but I'll just save time and give this post a bump. Bluegrass is niche and kitsch at the same time.
I got quite a bit of exposure to bluegrass(or newgrass?) through the hippy jam band scene over the past 10-15 years. Bands like Yonder Mountain String Band, Leftover Salmon, and Jeff Bush have been keeping the art alive and well while infusing others genres into the music. They just found ways to make the old art current and relevant and appeal to a younger generation.
So i can at least say there is significant interest in the style, but maybe not where you would think to look. I actually relate bluegrass more so to the Grateful Dead these days rather than being country/mountain/good ole boy music.
So i can at least say there is significant interest in the style, but maybe not where you would think to look. I actually relate bluegrass more so to the Grateful Dead these days rather than being country/mountain/good ole boy music.
Why isn't BlueGrass (or Cajun or Old Timey or Celtic) more popular ? Who cares if it is popular? 
What does that matter ? I sure don't Care. But I don't try to make a living playing bass. Bluegrass .... Etc. ... Is not always " 3-chords (1-4-5) and a cloud of dust " when you play with the right set of musicians.
Bluegrass, old-time fiddle tunes, and traditional cajun music are my favorites to play upright bass along with. No drums .... Someone good on rhythm guitar with tight 1 - 3 rhythm (with a good guitar G-run when it matters), me on bass, crisp mandolin and fiddle on 2 - 4 "snare" chops, and Banjo .... Where-ever the Hell he / she is at the time
.
IMO ... The ideal group of Moose-icians for me in MT is .... banjo, mando, fiddle, rhythm guitar, upright bass ..... The Bonus's would be a dobro and extra rhythm guitar so we can have lead guitar "breaks" .
There's plenty of interest and chords to play with in what we regularly do .... Dear Old Dixie, Charmaine, Alabama Jubilee, Colored Aristocracy, Santa Claus, Big Scioty, Welcome To New York and those oldy modal mountain instrumentals with flat-3 and flat-7 like Cluck Old Hen and Stoney Creek.
There are the pretty waltzes ..... Ashokan Farewell, Ook Pik, Lovers Waltz, Star of The County Down, Midnight On The Water, Old Madeira, Tit Yeux Noir, Jolie Blon .... Plenty of chords and interest to go around.
I have a "real job" during the day / week. But .... I have stayed at several Holiday Inn Expresses (in the back of my truck late at night in the parking lot eating canned sardines and crackers).
Does anyone care if my favorite food in Montana is home-made sauerkraut with garden-grown cabbage along with Pronghorn Antelope Polish Sausage with hot mustard with a side-dish of hand-picked choke-cherries made into a compote with local honey and local oat and barley groats ? And .... Washed down with local micro-brews like Pig's-Ass Porter (made in a MT town that hardly exists) and Big Sky Moose Drool. It is all-local Flavor when you come right down to it. If you don't like it .... Don't Eat It or Play The Music. Here in MT ... We like BlueGrass and there are a lot of Good Musicians to play with.
Good Cajun and Old Time Fiddle Music and Celtic Music are also "worried" (I'm Sure) that they are not more popular. I play those on upright too. Just go to Ville Platte and Lafeyette LA to those roadhouse taverns and ask the all-ages dancing patrons if they care whether "cajun" music is popular (or not) as they chew on craw-dad tails and heads along with their red beans and rice, etoufee, Dixie Beer, and bread pudding. For me ... There is nothing more fun than playing a fast Cajun Waltz on all 3 chord-arpeggiated beats on the upright bass.
As far as the "I don't like the whiney bluegrass voices" comments go .... Well ... I like "The Whine" .... The super-high tenor ... The sound that makes hummingbirds want to commit suicide. That is one aspect of the "local flavor" of bluegrass that I hope never goes away. Mind you .... I am not "local" to the hills of the 3 States that share a corner (TN / KY / NC ). I live a long-ways from Johnson City, TN. But .... I hope to camp-out in a Holiday Expres parking lot someday in Johnson City with my upright bass in-tow and eat some local deep-fried breaded squirrel-parts and hush-puppies.
If you don't like the high-lonesome Whiney sounds of Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, The Stanley Brothers, The Osborne Brothers, Hazel Dickens, The Bray Brothers, The Shenandoah Cut-Ups, Vern Williams, Del McCoury, Open Road, The Johnson Mountain Boys, and many others that I forgot to mention ... Then ... I guess you don't like them Sounds.
It's OK
.... With more counseling and Less front-brain cerebral jazz and More lizard-brain / fun / root / primal-beat upright playing along with bluegrass / old-time fiddle / cajun music ..... You be be Happier.
Have any of you upright bass players tried to play bass and sing a "part" in bluegrass 2 / 3 / 4 part harmonys ?
Woof .... It is hard for me. Soooo .... Am I taking the 3 or the 5 or the flat-7 ? And can I remember the lyrics while I play a decent bass and on-time bass line with some "interest" on runs and passing chords ? It's a challenge for me for sure.
Whatever ..... If y'all really want to hear what "bluegrass" is supposed to sound like ... Just Google "America's Got Talent" and "Bluegrass"
.... I guess that is what passes as "Popular".
Maybe "Dancing With The Stars" will feature a bluegrass clogging number with Melissa McCarthy (I love her) and Ben Roethlisberger
.
Myself .... I have No-Use for all the New Youngsters (Get the Hell off my Lawn) / Jam Bands / Bands with a Banjo & Fiddle that claim to be "BlueGrass" . I am not-sure that they ever listened to the roots of The Music and I think that is an Insult to the Founders. Don't get me Started. Carry On 
.
What does that matter ? I sure don't Care. But I don't try to make a living playing bass. Bluegrass .... Etc. ... Is not always " 3-chords (1-4-5) and a cloud of dust " when you play with the right set of musicians.
Bluegrass, old-time fiddle tunes, and traditional cajun music are my favorites to play upright bass along with. No drums .... Someone good on rhythm guitar with tight 1 - 3 rhythm (with a good guitar G-run when it matters), me on bass, crisp mandolin and fiddle on 2 - 4 "snare" chops, and Banjo .... Where-ever the Hell he / she is at the time
.IMO ... The ideal group of Moose-icians for me in MT is .... banjo, mando, fiddle, rhythm guitar, upright bass ..... The Bonus's would be a dobro and extra rhythm guitar so we can have lead guitar "breaks" .
There's plenty of interest and chords to play with in what we regularly do .... Dear Old Dixie, Charmaine, Alabama Jubilee, Colored Aristocracy, Santa Claus, Big Scioty, Welcome To New York and those oldy modal mountain instrumentals with flat-3 and flat-7 like Cluck Old Hen and Stoney Creek.
There are the pretty waltzes ..... Ashokan Farewell, Ook Pik, Lovers Waltz, Star of The County Down, Midnight On The Water, Old Madeira, Tit Yeux Noir, Jolie Blon .... Plenty of chords and interest to go around.
I have a "real job" during the day / week. But .... I have stayed at several Holiday Inn Expresses (in the back of my truck late at night in the parking lot eating canned sardines and crackers).
Does anyone care if my favorite food in Montana is home-made sauerkraut with garden-grown cabbage along with Pronghorn Antelope Polish Sausage with hot mustard with a side-dish of hand-picked choke-cherries made into a compote with local honey and local oat and barley groats ? And .... Washed down with local micro-brews like Pig's-Ass Porter (made in a MT town that hardly exists) and Big Sky Moose Drool. It is all-local Flavor when you come right down to it. If you don't like it .... Don't Eat It or Play The Music. Here in MT ... We like BlueGrass and there are a lot of Good Musicians to play with.
Good Cajun and Old Time Fiddle Music and Celtic Music are also "worried" (I'm Sure) that they are not more popular. I play those on upright too. Just go to Ville Platte and Lafeyette LA to those roadhouse taverns and ask the all-ages dancing patrons if they care whether "cajun" music is popular (or not) as they chew on craw-dad tails and heads along with their red beans and rice, etoufee, Dixie Beer, and bread pudding. For me ... There is nothing more fun than playing a fast Cajun Waltz on all 3 chord-arpeggiated beats on the upright bass.
As far as the "I don't like the whiney bluegrass voices" comments go .... Well ... I like "The Whine" .... The super-high tenor ... The sound that makes hummingbirds want to commit suicide. That is one aspect of the "local flavor" of bluegrass that I hope never goes away. Mind you .... I am not "local" to the hills of the 3 States that share a corner (TN / KY / NC ). I live a long-ways from Johnson City, TN. But .... I hope to camp-out in a Holiday Expres parking lot someday in Johnson City with my upright bass in-tow and eat some local deep-fried breaded squirrel-parts and hush-puppies.
If you don't like the high-lonesome Whiney sounds of Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, The Stanley Brothers, The Osborne Brothers, Hazel Dickens, The Bray Brothers, The Shenandoah Cut-Ups, Vern Williams, Del McCoury, Open Road, The Johnson Mountain Boys, and many others that I forgot to mention ... Then ... I guess you don't like them Sounds.
It's OK
.... With more counseling and Less front-brain cerebral jazz and More lizard-brain / fun / root / primal-beat upright playing along with bluegrass / old-time fiddle / cajun music ..... You be be Happier.Have any of you upright bass players tried to play bass and sing a "part" in bluegrass 2 / 3 / 4 part harmonys ?
Woof .... It is hard for me. Soooo .... Am I taking the 3 or the 5 or the flat-7 ? And can I remember the lyrics while I play a decent bass and on-time bass line with some "interest" on runs and passing chords ? It's a challenge for me for sure.
Whatever ..... If y'all really want to hear what "bluegrass" is supposed to sound like ... Just Google "America's Got Talent" and "Bluegrass"
.... I guess that is what passes as "Popular". Maybe "Dancing With The Stars" will feature a bluegrass clogging number with Melissa McCarthy (I love her) and Ben Roethlisberger
.Myself .... I have No-Use for all the New Youngsters (Get the Hell off my Lawn) / Jam Bands / Bands with a Banjo & Fiddle that claim to be "BlueGrass"
. I am not-sure that they ever listened to the roots of The Music and I think that is an Insult to the Founders. Don't get me Started. Carry On .
- Oct 18, 2012
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I feel the same way about most country songs. The music is great but I can't stand the twang in the voice.
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