I think more people in the world listen to Bieber than Beethoven, without a doubt. Not sure how you could "fact check" something like that...
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Double Bass Why isn't Jazz that popular? (DB forum thread)
- Thread starter gai113
- Start date
I think more people in the world listen to Bieber than Beethoven, without a doubt. Not sure how you could "fact check" something like that...
"without a doubt."
You really believe if you went to France, Germany, Israel, Finland, etc., and asked people on the street to sing the latest Bieber or the "Ode To Joy," more people would sing the latest Bieber? And, yes, I know that Beethoven did not write the "Ode" melody, but his use of it is the reason 99.999% of the world knows it. Maybe we could give the Biebs a sporting chance and ask for the opening of the Fifth instead. I'd still bet on Luddy Van.
The fact check comment was actually meant to be lighthearted attempt to call attention to an unquestioned assumption, not a call for more unattainable data.
You really believe if you went to France, Germany, Israel, Finland, etc., and asked people on the street to sing the latest Bieber or the "Ode To Joy," more people would sing the latest Bieber? And, yes, I know that Beethoven did not write the "Ode" melody, but his use of it is the reason 99.999% of the world knows it. Maybe we could give the Biebs a sporting chance and ask for the opening of the Fifth instead. I'd still bet on Luddy Van.
The fact check comment was actually meant to be lighthearted attempt to call attention to an unquestioned assumption, not a call for more unattainable data.
I think it not just jazz but any of the more "sophisticated" music in any genre. The issue here is that even Light jazz is more sophisticated than most pop.
For example Fairport Convention, (Invalid Link Removed) who is getting ready for their annual Croperdy Festival coming the 9 to the 11 of August, is a bit more to grasp that 1 2 3 Red Light. () But they would be in the pop genre.
Jazz dosen't have anything like that catchy overly humable killer chourus that pop thrives on.
How often do you find yourself humming Take Five?
Another issue is that not only did jazz in the early Twentieth Century have more Market Share, Less market share was required to survive. Now the music business requires more business than music, alot more.
A couple of cats were able to play a few standards and a jazzy version of a tune on the radio and get paid for the night.
I've noticed that many people nowadays can't tell the difference between a song and an "arrangement'.
An example. At work listening to a Miles tune and have it refered to by a colleuge as elevator music. She was a big Nine Inch Nails fan. Much more interested in the heavey production. Very much like comparing Too Late for Tears with the latest Technicolor big budget film.
For example Fairport Convention, (Invalid Link Removed) who is getting ready for their annual Croperdy Festival coming the 9 to the 11 of August, is a bit more to grasp that 1 2 3 Red Light. () But they would be in the pop genre.
Jazz dosen't have anything like that catchy overly humable killer chourus that pop thrives on.
How often do you find yourself humming Take Five?
Another issue is that not only did jazz in the early Twentieth Century have more Market Share, Less market share was required to survive. Now the music business requires more business than music, alot more.
A couple of cats were able to play a few standards and a jazzy version of a tune on the radio and get paid for the night.
I've noticed that many people nowadays can't tell the difference between a song and an "arrangement'.
An example. At work listening to a Miles tune and have it refered to by a colleuge as elevator music. She was a big Nine Inch Nails fan. Much more interested in the heavey production. Very much like comparing Too Late for Tears with the latest Technicolor big budget film.
i find myself humming take five at least one a month...
i stand by my "most people are too stupid" comment. i have about 3000 songs on my blackberry and i play it at work. the morons say the jazz tunes all sound the same and yes, call it elevator music, or simply "turn that $#!+ down!"
now i'm not playing atonal stuff; i don't like atonal stuff. most of it is hummable, toe tappable, melodic even if it is in 5/4 or 7/8. if someone won't even open their ears and listen before they complain about it = they're stupid. if they listen to it and then say "i just don't like it" ok at least they had an open mind. but they won't even give it a chance.
one more point: a person of average intelligence is a dumb ass. if you add them together with all the people of lower than average intelligence, there's your "most people".
i stand by my "most people are too stupid" comment. i have about 3000 songs on my blackberry and i play it at work. the morons say the jazz tunes all sound the same and yes, call it elevator music, or simply "turn that $#!+ down!"
now i'm not playing atonal stuff; i don't like atonal stuff. most of it is hummable, toe tappable, melodic even if it is in 5/4 or 7/8. if someone won't even open their ears and listen before they complain about it = they're stupid. if they listen to it and then say "i just don't like it" ok at least they had an open mind. but they won't even give it a chance.
one more point: a person of average intelligence is a dumb ass. if you add them together with all the people of lower than average intelligence, there's your "most people".
umm....you might want to check that math.....Humming a pop song (Take Five) on a regular basis would make you just like "most people"......
I have a very eclectic music collection that includes what I consider to be some great jazz (Miles, Trane, Bill Evans, etc.). My musical interests are very far-ranging. In fact, I would say that I like most music except Opera and Rap. But... I don't like everything. Far from it. I like the best of the best, the creme de la creme. Genius.
The reason I don't own more jazz and listen to what I do own more often (and again, this is just me) is that so much jazz seems to lack a definite personality. So much of it is just "yeah, me too" churning out the same stuff out by the yards.
For example, Chick Corea in particular is someone who seems intent on giving me everything he knows in the first 8 bars of each tune. I always feel like it's the same old schtick, only the album and song titles change.
It's worth mentioning that jazz isn't the only genre that does this. In fact MOST genres are like this... "me too blues," "me too country," etc. It just bores me to tears.
In fact, I just got done listening to the new Trevor Rabin record, with Tal and Vinny no less. The first few songs seemed fairly fresh and held my attention, but by the end of the record I was like, "More of THIS? C'mon!" I sure am glad that I downloaded it free rather than bought it, because it is now deleted from my collection, but that's a whole other conversation.
Truly GREAT music is a relatively rare thing IMHO.
I think George Santayana once said, "Most people believe genius is as common as dirt, when it is as rare as love."
The reason I don't own more jazz and listen to what I do own more often (and again, this is just me) is that so much jazz seems to lack a definite personality. So much of it is just "yeah, me too" churning out the same stuff out by the yards.
For example, Chick Corea in particular is someone who seems intent on giving me everything he knows in the first 8 bars of each tune. I always feel like it's the same old schtick, only the album and song titles change.
It's worth mentioning that jazz isn't the only genre that does this. In fact MOST genres are like this... "me too blues," "me too country," etc. It just bores me to tears.
In fact, I just got done listening to the new Trevor Rabin record, with Tal and Vinny no less. The first few songs seemed fairly fresh and held my attention, but by the end of the record I was like, "More of THIS? C'mon!" I sure am glad that I downloaded it free rather than bought it, because it is now deleted from my collection, but that's a whole other conversation.
Truly GREAT music is a relatively rare thing IMHO.
I think George Santayana once said, "Most people believe genius is as common as dirt, when it is as rare as love."
Having observed our culture and the position of jazz for more than 60 years, I'd say -
Brusque, Yes.
Accurate, yes.
umm....you might want to check that math.....Humming a pop song (Take Five) on a regular basis would make you just like "most people"......
you really consider take five a pop song? as far as i know it ain't even a song; no words. and how many pop songs are in 5/4? i suspect most people don't even know what take five is although they've all heard it in an elevator before...
i know i'm a dumb ass; i'm a mechanic. only a dumb ass would choose a field that's that hard on your body. we have a saying in the shop "do you know why you're a dumb ass? because you're here."
You could say Take Five is a popular jazz song. As the Brubeck version made the pop charts. Is it not the purpose of the thread to ask why other jazz songs don"t become popular anymore? Since we have gone from jazz artist in the swing era being superstars to the occaisional jazz song breaking through along with jazz purist barking that breakthrough song is not really jazz it does beg the question of what is the question.
It's true: there was indeed a time when Take Five was a bona fide pop phenom. Speaking for myself and my late Boomer colleagues, it was largely part of our parents' music from the late 50's, early 60's, and *they* bought and played the record in large numbers. But a lot of 70's stoner record collections would have a few jazz albums, and chances were very, very good you'd see either "Kind of Blue" or "Take Five" in there. Interesting both those albums are from the same year: 1959.
I heard a lot of bossa nova that way as a young kid -- my folks were infected by the early 60's bossa nova phenomenon.
I heard a lot of bossa nova that way as a young kid -- my folks were infected by the early 60's bossa nova phenomenon.
I would have to agree. Same with Katy Perry (saw something to the effect that she's sold more records than The Beatles, Led Zeppelin and someone else COMBINED).
This has been my feeling for decades, with or without a computer analysis, but thanks for posting this.
John, I was a friend of Michael Taddei's mother and father when they lived in Ridgewood. Michael's talent was already obvious when he was a teen.
Because an individual has to have
an IQ in, at least, the triple digits to
listen to and decipher jazz music and
appreciate the history of the art form
in order to enjoy it. Your typical next
door neighbor doesn't meet that
criteria.
an IQ in, at least, the triple digits to
listen to and decipher jazz music and
appreciate the history of the art form
in order to enjoy it. Your typical next
door neighbor doesn't meet that
criteria.
I suspect this is part of a larger trend.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/old-pianos-being-trashed-sad-903894/
The advent of recorded music has been a double edged sword. It's made exposure, consumption, and dissemination of music possible at a level never before seen and has simultaneously enabled the vast majority of the audience to become more and more ignorant over time as the requirement to understand music is no longer necessary to enjoy it. For those that choose to take advantage of the vast resources at our disposal today the sky is the limit. Most do not.
This does not even take into account the other entertainment avenues that overtook music's marketshare.
Mike
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/old-pianos-being-trashed-sad-903894/
The advent of recorded music has been a double edged sword. It's made exposure, consumption, and dissemination of music possible at a level never before seen and has simultaneously enabled the vast majority of the audience to become more and more ignorant over time as the requirement to understand music is no longer necessary to enjoy it. For those that choose to take advantage of the vast resources at our disposal today the sky is the limit. Most do not.
This does not even take into account the other entertainment avenues that overtook music's marketshare.
Mike
