Double Bass Why isn't Jazz that popular? (DB forum thread)

[Matty Koff]

I know this is the double bass forum, and you guys are talking about jazz. But I want to say it was Jimmy Haslip of the Yellowjackets, and watching a Yellowjackets performance on TV is really when I started to develop my appreciation for jazz as a whole.

Sure.. it's "jazz fusion", but the guys are all jazz musicians and it shows.

Not reading 51 pages of thread, but here's how I look at it. The jazz musician to me is the epitome of the modern day musician. Fluent in the language, masterful in technique and while they understand theory better than most, when they're playing it's probably more like singing something in their head or hearing a chord/note and the fingers reacting accordingly.

I think jazz perhaps appeals to musicians, or people who otherwise understand some of what it takes to have the level of ability to declare oneself a "Jazz musician". We tend to hear the language they're speaking. And at least myself I tend to get a little jaw dropping action going on sometimes. Like wow guys. That's amazing.

People listen to a band like Nickleback because they like the way somebody smacks their.. . That and the music is simple enough for them to process the motion the rhythm section is promoting.

Not to hate on Nickleback, or their fans. I find it hard not to sometimes but those guys are making a good run at it given that they're still touring, and they sure as heck got a lot further in the business than I'm likely ever to.

Take somebody like Amy Winehouse, whose music wasn't exactly jazz but her singing techniques were deeply rooted in Jazz, R&B, and soul. At her healthiest, she was appealing to the eye. She sang about topics that masses of people could relate with.. kind of like her struggles towards the end of her life. At the same time you had classic jazz singers beyond impressed with her in the studio.. point being everybody knows who she was.

I'll go back to the EB side of TB now but.. if I may leave something behind and yes, if you weren't aware.. Jimmy Haslip plays a lefty that is strung like a righty flipped upside down. I'm suddenly curious how difficult it would be to play some of his stuff, and it kind of boggles the mind how the man has learned to play that way so well.

 

[brianrost]

The average listener can bop, so to speak, down the street with Pharrell's 'Happy' in his or her head in a way they can't with Some of My Favorite Things.

That's because it's a waltz

Jazz is unpopular because most of the people who play it have no respect for the audience.

That's a pretty broad brush overgeneralization...if they have no respect for an audience why don't they just play at home?

There is no industry in the world that will create a product, end up not selling enough of the product to be viable, and then continue to make that same product, but over the years make it harder and harder for their potential customers to use. Jazz does this.

So does Microsoft

 

[Snarf]

That's a pretty broad brush overgeneralization...if they have no respect for an audience why don't they just play at home?

They basically do . . . most jazz clubs are sparsely populated, and the people that are there are other musicians waiting to go on stage next.

 

[scott sinner]

I think instrumental jazz isn't popular for the same reasons lots of instrumental music isn't popular. The average person relates to the human voice and simple song forms. Post Modern Jukebox has multi-millions of hits doing jazz/swing versions of other songs.

 

[bass12]

They basically do . . . most jazz clubs are sparsely populated, and the people that are there are other musicians waiting to go on stage next.

If I think about my favourites of the jazz shows I've been to, they almost all have one thing in common: the band leader has managed to establish a connection with the audience and has then made the audience feel like everyone in the room is there to have a good time together. The least enjoyable jazz shows I've been to have typically been the most self-indulgent on the part of the band, leaving me with the sense that the musicians are just there for themselves.

 

[brianrost]

most jazz clubs are sparsely populated, and the people that are there are other musicians waiting to go on stage next.

Um, not the jazz shows I go to. There are no other musicians waiting to go on stage. Maybe I'm living in a parallel universe.

 

[jdh3000]

To most western ears the conditioning based on the I, IV, V and that which is built off of that is more palatable, whilst more complicated progressions and tones sound is difficult to accept, as it's an acquired taste for many.

Those who were raised listening to jazz will have an affinity for it.

It's the same reason that middle eastern music, for example, isn't popular...one either has to be around it or acquire a taste for it.

 

[J_Bass]

Couldn't resist puting a quote, after reading some ludicrous posts in this thread:

"CH: Yeah, but you know, the culture’s in you when you come into this world. Sometimes I say I must have been delivered to the wrong planet. This isn’t the planet for me because I want to be around people who are really deep human beings that care about art and creativity. That’s why I really love jazz musicians, because that’s who they are. The guys playing jazz, you know, and even people who love jazz and listen to it, are special people who have great ears and, because they have great ears, they also have great eyes. They love painting and they love dance. They love the arts."

Interview with jazz bass legend Charlie Haden

 

[Nashrakh]

Couldn't resist puting a quote, after reading some ludicrous posts in this thread:

"CH: Yeah, but you know, the culture’s in you when you come into this world. Sometimes I say I must have been delivered to the wrong planet. This isn’t the planet for me because I want to be around people who are really deep human beings that care about art and creativity. That’s why I really love jazz musicians, because that’s who they are. The guys playing jazz, you know, and even people who love jazz and listen to it, are special people who have great ears and, because they have great ears, they also have great eyes. They love painting and they love dance. They love the arts."

Interview with jazz bass legend Charlie Haden

A really nice, roundabout way of saying "well, humans are mostly uncultured barbarians". I can smell the elitism.

 

[Lee Moses]

"well, humans are mostly uncultured barbarians".

True enough, but couldn't you find a nicer way to put it?

 

[fdeck]

In my view there's nothing to be learned from negativity about jazz. Some folks are never going to like it.

We know that it can be played badly, or indifferently, or that a band can program material that's inappropriate for a performance setting. Sometimes those are just beginner mistakes. I think figuring those things out is part of developing maturity as a musician, and we have to master the technicalities of playing before we can loosen up and divert some of our attention to the audience. None of us interacted with the audience at our first gig. I was scared ****less. With time, we started to use audience reaction as a source of feedback, and learned to adapt our playing to an audience and setting. I've found that with only a bit of sensitivity for the situation, I can play music that's satisfying to myself, and to the audience, with little or no compromise. That includes, yes, playing lengthy arco bass solos.

That's different than just smoothing all of the edges off of jazz and restricting it to a small range of styles that's unoffensive to the largest possible number of people. I think there's still a reason to keep the "other" kind of jazz alive, which means performing it in public. What sets jazz apart is that we have this choice due to the huge variety of flavors of "jazz" whereas most bands are more restricted by genre and repertoire.

One possible source of confusion for bands may be due to jazz groups being hired for "background music" because we have the chops for playing at a moderate volume level. I think believing that "nobody will be listening" is a death trap. My habit is that I always assume somebody is listening.

 

[Treyzer]

• nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American Public: social critic H. L. Mencken (1880–1956)

I think this rather humorous discussion, (at least for me), could also be about classical music. I love lots of music in many genres as long as it's well played and has some emotional content.

 

[BobDeRosa]

Jazz is great improvised music and appeals to many muso's.

Commercially it will never appeal to the "Tweenies" who buy popular music and the music/advertising executives who man the controls.

What the hell is a muso? Musician? Music lover? Museum lover?

 

[Space Pickle]

What the hell is a muso? Musician? Music lover? Museum lover?

there's a joke here but i can't come up with it right now

i may edit this post later for additional humor

 

[fdeck]

Musician. There's a perception that jazz is "musicians' music," of interest to our fellow musicians but to nobody else. Now, jazz encompasses a lot of things. Some jazz is definitely experimental, academic, esoteric, even downright offensive. People have used jazz as a platform for protest music. But there's plenty of jazz with a broader appeal, and it's not unthinkable for audiences to meet us halfway either. I go to plenty of "classical" performances, where nobody in the audience grew up in the classical era. Very few people in the typical jazz audience grew up during the jazz era, though we definitely draw an older crowd. Our audience is the rock 'n' roll generation that has adopted a taste for jazz (or just don't want to be driven deaf).

But musicians' music isn't limited to jazz. I've read articles about punk rock and heavy metal, that describe fairly tight knit communities supporting bands.

 

[JBarz]

Because it’s easier to watch TV or scroll the internet. We live in a society built upon the dependence on technology to provide instant gratification and the pursuit of money to buy said technology. There’s no money in improvised music, there’s no instant gratification, and you can’t watch a YouTube tutorial to understand/feel/relate to it. What’s the point? The “spiritual growth” aspects are underplayed and the barrier to entry is an immediate grounds for disinterest and dismissal by the modern lay listener. Plus “jazz” is a dumb word used to draw a line in the sand and divide records at the store, like fdeck hints at above. Music is alive and well and still popular. Books are still in vogue, too, even though the majority of society seems to do it’s reading on the internet… short answer, people are being bred to be stupider so that they’re easier to herd and sell stuff and ads to. To put it in metaphorical talkbass terms : people are more interested in the gear, and the persuit there of, than The Music itself... I have to fight this in myself daily.