Double Bass Why no new Jazz Standards?

[PauFerro]

I have been toying with the idea of creating another fake book that becomes way popular like the Real Book did. While obeying copyright laws (through some grant funding through a 501 (c) 3). And then make them free for a lot of gigging musicians locally up to the number of copies allowed.

What I'm concluding is this:

1. Take existing pop songs but reharmonize them to make the chord changes interesting.

2. Make sure the songs are charted in a lead sheet format that is performance friendly. (For me that means no more than 2 facing pages).

3. There would have to be a decent spate of songs that are easy. Pat Metheny wrote somewhere the easier the songs are, the more likely they are to be played. Gigging musicians tend not to want to rehearse much, I've found. You can throw charts at them at the gig, though, if you are the guy who calls the tunes. And the band does a better job if the tune is either really simple (with a memorable head) or of moderate difficulty, I have found. This is to accommodate the skills of a wide range of players. Songs with massively complicated song structure are problematic.

But it would have to speak to the interests of strong players. But simply having the songs charted in a way that makes them easy to sight-read

I do think affordable charts are at least the gateway to newer standards.

I actually saw the Bad Plus on a cruise this year -- way out there music -- I couldn't even tell where the beat was, and how they were relating to each other. It is a very new way of looking at jazz, that is for sure.

What would encourage you to use a book extensively like the Real Book, but composed of "new" standards that haven't played regularly by musicians before?

 

[socialleper]

Rock players complain about the same thing all the time. From a strictly consumer point of view, I think the answer is fairly obvious: you can't really have new "standards" in a niche genre with a shrinking fan base. I'm not knocking jazz, I'm just saying that the general public hasn't really had its eye on that particular ball since the late 70s early 80s. If pushed, Joe Average would probably name some of the older musicians the OP mentioned, but would have a hard time naming a modern one. Standards are popular songs written by popular artists, both of which are easily recognizable. No easily recognizable artists, no recognizable songs, no standards.

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

When I was young and playing in rock and pop bands, we'd hear a song on the radio that we liked, and we'd learn it.

If you want new music, find something you like and learn it.

With the internet and streaming, there is an endless source of music available.

 

[jthisdell]

What I'm concluding is this:

1. Take existing pop songs but reharmonize them to make the chord changes interesting.

Good luck trying to make something like Taylor Swift, etc. interesting

 

[Michael Drost]

Interesting Taylor Swift

I know this is not done in the jazz idiom, but it is a good example of making chicken soup out of chicken poop, so to speak.

Standards are one of the mediums in which jazz musicians communicate. I have to remind myself that there is nothing wrong with continually reimagining or reinterpreting great tunes. Young or old, a good tune is a good tune. Not unlike folk tradition. Nothing wrong with continuing our tradition. If we desire to establish something new...well, we need to establish it. I agree with all the comments stating "if you like a tune, play it". This is how it starts.

This is a good discussion productive for the propagation of the art form. Kudos to all participating in it.

 

[jthisdell]

I know this is not done in the jazz idiom, but it is a good example of making chicken soup out of chicken poop, so to speak.

Nicely done.

My point was that much of today's pop is so dumbed down for the masses that the song structures, melodies rhythms are all so simple that there is not a lot to work with. So many pop/r&b tunes have a rhythm that is just a 4/4 drum beat going boom, boom, boom, boom through the entire song. I recently heard an interview with a pop producer where he was listening to possible songs and he said "that is nice but too melodic for today's market". Too melodic? It would be nice to hear any melody at all.

OK, so just a rant from a semi-old geezer who laments that How High the Moon is no longer on the radio

 

[Sam Sherry]

Here, play this one. It's a standard in Maine, part of the late Steve Grover's Monk-prize-winning "Blackbird Suite".

You'll like it.

 

[Sam Sherry]

Here, play this one. It's about fifty years old but everybody will smile when you play it.

I picked it up here on TB / DB. You'll like it.

 

[Sam Sherry]

Here, play this one. In the early 70s, when the original version came out, a zillion folks covered it -- it was a "new standard" then.

You'll like it.



RIP John Abercrombie

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Here, play this one. It's about fifty years old but everybody will smile when you play it.

I picked it up here on TB / DB. You'll like it.

Beautiful! Yet more proof that if you have a tune you like and believe in, you can make it sound good in spite of what naysayers on the internet may think.

 

[PauFerro]

I appreciate you sending all these charts. This is the kind of thing I'm interested in. Like "I Know Noble Accents"

The tunes can preserve the genre's swing, bossa, samba and latin focus, but create new tunes with such great changes and melodies people just have to play them. I mean, when was the last time you heard Mr. PC on the radio unless you found some university jazz radio station? But among musicians, I'm exposed to all the old stuff all the time -- through the real book. That's my "radio" or "youtube programming".

I'd love to put together a book of original music from many different artists and get it disseminated all over American and the world. With tunes so good people just have to play them. And who cares about the money.

 

[PauFerro]

Check out a few of my originals....just the main idea. They are more smooth and fusion or soul jazz, but I do them on piccolo bass. What's cool is that the pros started asking me to bring my piccolo bass to their own gigs so we could play them. That was a vote of confidence for me since I didn't ask for it.

With jazz, as long as you create the right ambiance, you can play all original music and no one cares as long as its good and suits the purpose of the gig.

Interested in knowing what you think of these. They are simply the main ideas of the tunes. I have charts, and also wrote a few swing and bossa tunes. But have no recordings of those yet.

 

[damonsmith]

The tin pan alley songs were written with the instrumentation we still use for jazz, and had chord changes that included tension, one of the many, many reasons they make more sense. The modern pop thing would make sense if we are out of options, but there is an endless supply of great, serious music to play.

 

[jthisdell]

Here, play this one. It's about fifty years old but everybody will smile when you play it.

I picked it up here on TB / DB. You'll like it.

Dave Stryker did a nice version of Wichita Lineman that I was fortunate to see him play with his organ trio.

 

[Sean Riddle]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
This an album I'm really interested to hear. It has three unique musicians on it, Mary Halvorson, Ron Miles, and Greg Saunier. Nate Wooley apparently is the one organizing a series of albums that are aiming to define what the modern American songbook is. So far the first album has some really cool songs selected. I'm interested to see where this all goes.

 

[Tom Lane]

A few things to add to the conversation that I haven't seen included yet:
1) As Pau alluded in the OP, jazz has changed in the past 50 years with the creation of the Real Books. Now, students feel compelled to be competent on most of the 1,500 tunes in the RBs so the repertoire is much larger and takes longer to master
2) most, less serious, players are too lazy to transcribe a tune that's not in the Real Book and see no need to. I've played with a lot of players who have never heard the tunes in the RB but play them nonetheless; and yeah, not very well.
3) there's a saying "It's not the song, it's what you do with it." I appreciate the sentiment, but don't completely agree. I do think most of the jazz versions of rock tunes are less interesting than many of the old show tunes, but there are notable exceptions, Wichita Lineman is one, Eleanor Rigby another, etc, but there are far more uninteresting, poorly composed tunes written and recorded than great tunes, so picking the really great tunes from the just-okay tunes will be crucial. If you want to create a new Real Book of tunes written since 1970, I think I'd start with successful jazz composers first and then branch out to big-name jazz artists and stop with college jazz professors. I've met a lot of folks who think they can compose but mostly, their tunes are just okay. I think it's great that they work on their craft that way, but for many reasons, IMO, their work is at best, boring. OTOH, I've heard some really great new jazz from jazz composers like Steve Swallow, jazz artists like Gary Burton, Pat Metheny, Rufus Reid, David Friesen, and talented jazz faculty like Chris Fitzgerald, Fred Hamilton, and Dan Hearle. I think your idea about choosing simpler songs is probably smart, but what I notice is that good tunes tend to have something difficult to play. For instance, many players think that Maiden Voyage is a simple tune, and it is, except for the bass/piano comp, which takes committed practice for most players to play well - and IME, most players don't play it well.
4) if you're going to create this new Real Book, I think I'd be tempted to create a non-profit to own the work and create a website to allow transcribers to download chart guidelines and then ask for volunteers to submit charts. That way, all of the charts will look similarly, and conform to legibility requirements and a set of nomenclature standards. Chord symbols, fonts, 4 bars to a line, no more than 2 pages, etc. Composers would have to be paid, but the only thing the transcribers would get is an acknowledgement that they did the transcription. You would probably also need a bunch of volunteers to review the transcriptions and rank them, and those folks could get contributing editor credit. An ambitious endeavor for sure, but with good organization and enough help, definitely doable. You could start with a first edition aimed at 99 or 100 tunes of varying character - swing, straight-8th, latin, bossa nova, waltz, etc.

 

[brianrost]

Some other Wichita Lineman jazz covers: Cassandra Wilson, John Hollenbeck

 

[damonsmith]

Yet another issue with contemporary pop in jazz: one of the functions of pop forms is define and divide generations. At this point, "jazz" is a generational neutral zone - bringing pop into it divides. A young musician might get a really old musician with no opinion on Radiohead or Nirvana to play one of their songs with them, a slightly older or younger musician than them may both or either corny!
You could never agree on a "new" real book because none of us have the same taste and experience with pop music. I cannot enter into the common ground of material for this reason.
Their may be arguments and examples of success of modern pop but it will never be common ground again.

 

[damonsmith]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
This an album I'm really interested to hear. It has three unique musicians on it, Mary Halvorson, Ron Miles, and Greg Saunier. Nate Wooley apparently is the one organizing a series of albums that are aiming to define what the modern American songbook is. So far the first album has some really cool songs selected. I'm interested to see where this all goes.

That is a terrible idea and they should know better.

 

[JRA]

Interesting Taylor Swift
I know this is not done in the jazz idiom, but it is a good example of making chicken soup out of chicken poop, so to speak.
Standards are one of the mediums in which jazz musicians communicate. I have to remind myself that there is nothing wrong with continually reimagining or reinterpreting great tunes. Young or old, a good tune is a good tune. Not unlike folk tradition. Nothing wrong with continuing our tradition. If we desire to establish something new...well, we need to establish it. I agree with all the comments stating "if you like a tune, play it". This is how it starts.
This is a good discussion productive for the propagation of the art form. Kudos to all participating in it.

that was smokin'! thanks!