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Why Rickenbackers are so expensive?
- Thread starter supremo
- Start date
How exactly does this stifle competition? I know Martin guitars doesn't allow dealers to post the true 'sale' price as well. The point of it is so that you'll call/email the dealer and talk to someone about the price. It's not difficult to find out the actual sale price of these instruments. People do it all the time. Literally every day.
So you think you should pay the wholesale price for the bass? Then you have a problem with retailers, not Rickenbacker - retailers are the ones marking it up to make a resale profit.
Having MAP pricing is fairly common. Nothing diabolical or deceitful about it.
Factories can be expanded, ya know......
That's one reason they have been able to keep control over the company. Typical scenario in the manufacturing business is that a company takes out a $10 million loan to expand, business slows, company can't pay back the debt, company is taken over by creditors or sold to a competitor. That's what has happened to about 99% of the companies in the music business. We have Fender, and all that they have gobbled up; Gibson, and all that they have gobbled up; and a few family owned companies holding on for dear life to remain independent.
I think it is not unreasonable to have to wait a year to two for a new rick, especially a fretless. I believe that rick would wait for a specific number of fretlesses to be ordered before making them, so you just happened to be one of the first on the list. If you want to see an example of having to wait, check out this thread http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/darrin-huff-wait-list-support-group-256053/. there are guys that have been waiting close to 9 years. If you watch their production methods, they are very much hand build, except for the shaping of the neck and body. Also, it was your choice to want a new, from the factory instrument, as opposed to a perfectly good one from a dealer. I'm not trying to start an argument, but there is another side of the coin.
Ironically, I'm in just about the same situation. I've got a '76 4001 in Jetglo...at practice last night, tuning up for nextd gig (my first with new band), they asked what bass I'd be bringing? (I've got an American P, Geddy Jazz, and others). They all want me to bring the 4001. It's my long time fav, had it since it was new, and the thin neck is just so wonderful to play. It fits perfect with all the cover stuff we're doing from Creedence to DMB. They even like it more than my '07 4003. Of course, that one has a toaster in the neck PU, and I'm contemplating switching it back to the stock hi gain...
Do I want to risk my most favorite and precious bass in a bar gig?
Do I never want to play it except in rehearsal?
Decisions decisions...
Agreed. It's ridiculous to think that an independent company working at capacity is necessarily manipulating supply because they're not expanding their facilities. Any business is wise to keep reigns on their growth, especially when it involves such investment as expanding a manufacturing factory does.
Short Answer: Because John Hall is a *insert male reproduction organ*
Long Answer: Because it's RIC's (Rickenbacker Instrument Company) decision to refuse to produce bigger numbers/expand the production facility, thus making the instruments rare. And when demand is higher than supply, the price goes up. There was a time when you had to wait 2 years for your Rickenbacker to come out of the factory. And they stopped making lefties for a couple of years, because they had SUCH a huge backlog they were getting in trouble with the clients...
And yes, Rickenbackers are HORRIBLY overpriced, especially since everything apart from the finishing and montage is done on CNC-machines.
Long Answer: Because it's RIC's (Rickenbacker Instrument Company) decision to refuse to produce bigger numbers/expand the production facility, thus making the instruments rare. And when demand is higher than supply, the price goes up. There was a time when you had to wait 2 years for your Rickenbacker to come out of the factory. And they stopped making lefties for a couple of years, because they had SUCH a huge backlog they were getting in trouble with the clients...
And yes, Rickenbackers are HORRIBLY overpriced, especially since everything apart from the finishing and montage is done on CNC-machines.
Rickenbackers have always been made in Southern California, and Santa Ana since at least the 50s IIRC. They produce at a reasonable capacity. Factory space ain't cheap in Santa Ana. It's a family-owned business too, and that's where the family lives. They'e invested in a staff of experienced workers. Moving out of the area would require a major commitment on the part of the family, and they'd probably lose most of their experienced workers. Why would they do that when they seem perfectly happy and successful where they are? For a buck? Is it so hard for people to imagine an American company with a little integrity?
Their current production scale seems to work for them since Rickenbacker sells pretty much all the instruments they make. If they're happy with that, that's their business.
The Halls offer an exceptional American product made by Americans. Don't like that? Support China, Indonesia, Mexico, Japan or Korea by sending your money there via Fender.
Otherwise, that's just what it costs.
Their current production scale seems to work for them since Rickenbacker sells pretty much all the instruments they make. If they're happy with that, that's their business.
The Halls offer an exceptional American product made by Americans. Don't like that? Support China, Indonesia, Mexico, Japan or Korea by sending your money there via Fender.
Otherwise, that's just what it costs.
For me, it's the sound. When I play another bass, and then I pick up a Ric, from the first note I notice the sound being way better than the other bass.
It's also how they sound with a pick. Most basses just don't sound good with a pick. Especially Fenders. IMO, of course.
As far as Ric not producing cheapo "Squire" versions and actively suppressing copies, I like that. I also like that not everyone likes Rics. Nobody notices when you get on stage with a Fender or clone. But you stand out when you get up there with a Ric.
It's also how they sound with a pick. Most basses just don't sound good with a pick. Especially Fenders. IMO, of course.
As far as Ric not producing cheapo "Squire" versions and actively suppressing copies, I like that. I also like that not everyone likes Rics. Nobody notices when you get on stage with a Fender or clone. But you stand out when you get up there with a Ric.
Ric5 (here on TB) does conversions of 4003's to five string. He does an awesome job. Here's the one he did for me.
(I love having the opportunity to show it off on TB and give Jeff a plug)
landau roof said:
What's embarrassing is that some think that "manipulating supply" is a bad thing. It's not. It's a business decision. Any business with a two year wait for product can afford to expand, unless their management is completely inept.
I'm sure they build all the guitars they can, as long as they maintain the quality they want. The video tour contains a statement that they don't always build certain models. They'll wait a few months and then focus on 4003s, for example.
Whatever it is, it works for them and I think we get a great bass for a reasonable price.
Whatever it is, it works for them and I think we get a great bass for a reasonable price.
This reads like some High School Econ student high on the pages of Forbes and WSJ.
It's not manipulation if they're at capacity. They seem very happy where they are, at the size they're at, doing the numbers they do. The quality of the instruments and are probably much better for it, too.
I used to build at Rickenbacker. I don't thing the instruments are overpriced. Sure, I wish they were cheaper...
It's a single, small, shop in SoCal. The bodies and neck blanks are cut on the CNC, but there is a ton of hand work as well. All of the gluing, all of the sanding (which is a lot, look at the guitars - 360 and 380)... the finishes are all hand sprayed and are built up. All of the fine/wet sanding and buffing is by hand. The necks are fretted by hand (press).
It's a single, small, shop in SoCal. The bodies and neck blanks are cut on the CNC, but there is a ton of hand work as well. All of the gluing, all of the sanding (which is a lot, look at the guitars - 360 and 380)... the finishes are all hand sprayed and are built up. All of the fine/wet sanding and buffing is by hand. The necks are fretted by hand (press).
dbd1963 said:
The Beatles? With all respect, when I think about a Ric the Beatles are not what comes up in my mind.
Yes, Rush, Spock's Beard, Motörhead, early Genesis.
I do not find Ricknebackers to be that expensive. In Norway you buy new one for 20000 Norwegian crowns, which is also the cost of a Stingray or some american Fenders.
There are more details to work on regarding a 4003 with the binding and all then a Fender jazz.
I agree quality control on Rickenbackers could or should be better, but a good Ric is one of a kind bass.
landau roof said:
Maybe I need to use smaller words. There is nothing wrong with intentionally limiting supply. To get upset because someone infers that RIC does so is silly. It is a legitimate business decision.
Fat fingered the send button earlier...
So... there is a lot of hand work; which costs money.
I know when I was there, we were at or near capacity for output. Business ebbs and flows, it isn't a bad choice for them to have a wait list. I don't think there is anything malicious in restricting supply. The climate isn't one where people want to over-extend.
So... there is a lot of hand work; which costs money.
I know when I was there, we were at or near capacity for output. Business ebbs and flows, it isn't a bad choice for them to have a wait list. I don't think there is anything malicious in restricting supply. The climate isn't one where people want to over-extend.
I'm not upset. I don't own a Ric, and the only one I really want isn't a current model (3001). Maybe "capacity" is too large a word?
