Will bass amps ever be obsolete?

[15000volts]

This may be one of those subjects that will last as long as the coca-cola/pepsi one...

I think many people here are forgetting something: it's not just about the tone you get. It's mostly that, but it's also about how you feel giving a gig. I wouldn't be comfortable playing without an amp behind me. I just wouldn't. And I'll haul around my amps as long as I can.

If you can't haul around your amps any more, either because you're getting old or you're injured or what ever may your reason be, use a good DI and a VTbass to get as close as you can from your original tone, no one will get mad at you for doing that.

 

[Korladis]

im surprised how many guys say they have to rely on an amp to sound/play decent.


if you are playing somewhere worth playing in stead of the VFW hall and you give the soundman some ability to work with, you should have a better chance at sounding good in FOH. IMO.

Unless of course your usual sound is nothing like what a clean DI would be. Then it's the incorrect approach.

Would you ever get a guitarist who likes his sound nice and crunchy to go DI instead of through overdriven tube amp?

 

[Queg]

Clearly the answer is: Yes, if every playing environment (including rehearsal!) was equipment with a decent PA.

Maybe the question would be closer to real-world if it was whether or not BIG RIGS will become obsolete? Most of the tone junkies already get their sound using active basses/amp modelers/pedals/preamp tone shaping; the tube/overdrive folks can get their same sound out of an overdriven <100w tube amp with one mic'd 1x12 cab. With a decent PA + stage monitor, either post-eq DI or mic'ing one speaker is all you really need.

Guitarists seem to be going this route - the Marshall stack is somewhat passe, perhaps it's time to retire the fridge as well?

 

[Korladis]

Clearly the answer is: Yes, if every playing environment (including rehearsal!) was equipment with a decent PA.

Maybe the question would be closer to real-world if it was whether or not BIG RIGS will become obsolete? Most of the tone junkies already get their sound using active basses/amp modelers/pedals/preamp tone shaping; the tube/overdrive folks can get their same sound out of an overdriven <100w tube amp with one mic'd 1x12 cab. With a decent PA + stage monitor, either post-eq DI or mic'ing one speaker is all you really need.

Guitarists seem to be going this route - the Marshall stack is somewhat passe, perhaps it's time to retire the fridge as well?

Er, I dunno about that. I'd be willing to go to a low wattage amp, but I think I'm always going to play through at least one 15" speaker.

Plus, there are guys on here who've gone from a small lightweight setup back to a fridge and been happier with their sound.

 

[JimmyM]

amps are supposed to have been obsolete for 30 years or so already. are thy here to stay or on borrowed time? i don't see a whole lot of pros ditching them, so i say here to stay.

 

[CJWalker]

I enjoy the feel of a real rig with all the bass behind me, but with larger PA's that can support the lows I'll use the X3 on occasion.

 

[ourworldisgrey]

For some people that are using amps as a stage monitor, amps are already obsolete. But for a doom band, they will never be.

Like most things on this forum, it all depends on your situation.

 

[R Baer]

You can have my amp, when you can pry it from my cold, dead hands! IMO, if your'e going to get rid of the amps on stage, you might as well take the chicks out of the crowd too!

 

[D.M.N.]

Clearly the answer is: Yes, if every playing environment (including rehearsal!) was equipment with a decent PA.

Maybe the question would be closer to real-world if it was whether or not BIG RIGS will become obsolete? Most of the tone junkies already get their sound using active basses/amp modelers/pedals/preamp tone shaping; the tube/overdrive folks can get their same sound out of an overdriven <100w tube amp with one mic'd 1x12 cab. With a decent PA + stage monitor, either post-eq DI or mic'ing one speaker is all you really need.

Guitarists seem to be going this route - the Marshall stack is somewhat passe, perhaps it's time to retire the fridge as well?

I would beg to differ. I have yet to play through a 100w+1x12
that has the same girth and overall tone of 300w into 2x15s. Not even for overdrive. For just big, fat vintage warmth, I have yet to hear a DI that can do that.

And, it might seem a bit shallow, but if you are playing rock, I'll admit, amps are part of the look. I know people claim it doesn't matter, but let's be honest with ourselves, what looks more "rock", or cooler: a highly-portable, feather weight, SS amp with a 1x12, a DI box, or a larger rig (4x10 or 1x15 minimum and Valve head)? Obviously, I don't want to generalize, as this doesn't hold true outside of rock, where the look doesn't really come into question.

You can have my amp, when you can pry it from my cold, dead hands! IMO, if your'e going to get rid of the amps on stage, you might as well take the chicks out of the crowd too!

QFT +100000000000

 

[Queg]

I would beg to differ. I have yet to play through a 100w+1x12
that has the same girth and overall tone of 300w into 2x15s. Not even for overdrive. For just big, fat vintage warmth, I have yet to hear a DI that can do that.

<SNIP>


Although you neglected the part of that scenario where the 100w into 1x12 would be mic'd (not DI'd) into thousands of watts of FOH PA stack that will blow doors on a 300w/2x15; You're right that you'd still yearn to hear back all that girth and tone from a stage monitor, and in-ear will never provide the same visceral response.

 

[JimmyM]

Although you neglected the part of that scenario where the 100w into 1x12 would be mic'd (not DI'd) into thousands of watts of FOH PA stack that will blow doors on a 300w/2x15; You're right that you'd still yearn to hear back all that girth and tone from a stage monitor, and in-ear will never provide the same visceral response.

that counts for something, i believe. that's why i still use a large cab rig most of the time, even though my volume needs can easily be satisfied by a 112.

 

[David Jayne]

I suppose I'd like to try it- in ears, PA monitors, etc, but almost every gig I've ever done was a 'stick PA' gig, where my rig MUST carry the room. I figure that's the way it will stay for me, so, not an option. I've done a fair bit of studio time too, amp-less with headphones, and usually hated it. I always tried to persuade the engineer to just let me hear the studio's monitors instead, and that always worked better. I want to feel, as well as hear the bass, which is what most listeners experience, and which I am used to. Just not a headphones kind of guy.

 

[R Baer]

I would love for bass amps to be obselete. Think of it: less money you have to spend on gear. Less gear you have to carry.

I suppose there are a lot of tour managers and producers out there that feel the same way about bass players!

 

[D.M.N.]

<SNIP>


Although you neglected the part of that scenario where the 100w into 1x12 would be mic'd (not DI'd) into thousands of watts of FOH PA stack that will blow doors on a 300w/2x15; You're right that you'd still yearn to hear back all that girth and tone from a stage monitor, and in-ear will never provide the same visceral response.

No, I didn't neglect that. The 100w+112 does not have the same girth as the 300w+2x15, and the P.A. is only reproducing the sound of what is mic'd, and even in the P.A. a 100w+112 won't be the same as a 300w+215.

300w+215 into P.A. will sound different than a 100w+112 into the P.A. and part of my tone is the big drivers and warm girth of those 300w. So I my statement still stands.

Sorry, I should have clarified, the 100w+112<300+215 wasn't necessarily related to the DI comment.

But I agree that in-ear and stage won't give you the same feel, and for me, that's a big part. For others not so much, and that's why they use micro rigs and DI, which is completely their call.

 

[zachoff]

If they are, I will play no more gigs. :idk: Screw em if they do.

 

[JimmyM]

i'll play any rig, even an iem/ampless rig, if it pays enough.

btw, devo has been going ampless for a couple years now. i don't exactly support this, but they do sound pretty much the same on their live recordings.

 

[Moosehead1966]

Listen... I've read these posts and have come to this conclusion: DO WHAT YA WANT!!

If you want to rationalize your choice based on FOH sound or other "common sense" considerations you are already "cooked".

Sense when does logical common sense play a part in "feeling good in the moment"? If you derive personal satisfaction and benefit from your personal choice (i.e. POD direct or full-on tube + fridge), aint that enough??

Seriously, we're talking live music here, not brain surgery...

Jimmy and others have described their personal choices as having been impacted on "personal satisfaction", RIGHT ON..

Life is short, live it. Either way the audience is not always the ONLY consideration. We musicians strive for personal satisfaction (i.e. left brain thinking..not right brain or we would not endeavour this as a past-time/employment option because it makes no sense "on paper").

Quit rationalizing personal choices, have fun and gig because "It completes us" (sorry crazy man Cruise for lifting your line).

Marc

 

[zachoff]

Life is short, live it. Either way the audience is not always the ONLY consideration. We musicians strive for personal satisfaction (i.e. left brain thinking..not right brain or we would not endeavour this as a past-time/employment option because it makes no sense "on paper").

YES!!! See, cause guess what? When I'm 45 years old and both kids are done with college and I have enough to retire... I'm going to open a club that caters only to musicians that don't DI. Everything will be mic'd and I'll get older dudes like me that kick new gear in its taint and only play old tube gear and I'll get younger bands who harken back to the old days when music was real and not flippantly thrown together like plastic wrap and lima beans.

Honestly, I kid, but if there's a demand for it, it will exist... Even in the 10 years from now version of me, which really isn't too far off but I'm hoping for the best and planning for the worst. Music will still contain amps and maybe... Just maybe... Amps with tubes in them. I'd like to think the same will hold true 100 years from now.

I'd like to think that when I'm a grandpa and my grandkids ask to play through my SVT or Bassman I'll gladly fire it up and they'll be awestruck at its tonal superiority to whatever is happening at the time.

Oh yeah... If I do ever own a music joint it will have the best scotch in town so you better swing by or else!

 

[TocoElBajo]

I think this thread has helped me decide the outcome of a debate I've been having with myself;

Take my PS3 or my 2x10 and head to uni... because I don't want to be paying insurance on both.

I mean I could pay for both... but it'd be expensive and I'd also like to fund hardcore drinking without getting a job. I'll be living with a guitarist and a drummer so hopefully we can get something going.

The alternative to taking my big amp is; playing through a 15w laney, playing through my toneport or behringer DI pedal. Neither of these sound or feel nearly as good as playing through an amp.

But at the end of the day, its more reasonable towards my housemates practicing with a 15w amp than a 300w amp (even if it does sound like ass). And if I were to get a gig, it'd be in a bar which would already have a PA for vocals so I can DI with my cheap-ass pedal; it won't be good, but it'll be tolerable and cheaper.

And then I can still play PS3 when I feel like bumming around.

Verdict; don't want to give up my amp but it'll be cheaper, easier and using DI will get the job done. All knowing that in the long term I will be able to go back to playing with my amp.

 

[billoetjen]

So.... recommend a good choice for something that you can carry with one hand (leaving the other hand free for your bass) that does all of the following:

Front end that has two separate 1/4" input jacks (one high impedance for passive, the other padded for active basses) with really high dynamic range and really low noise;

RCA phono inputs (sometimes you're really glad you had 'em);

FX out and in;

Some kind of really flexible eq, like ten band graphic or parametric;

Balanced XLR out with a decent range of gain;

Headphone out;

A very clean power stage of say, 500 watts;

External speaker output;

efficient, full-range neo 10" driver;

all in a sturdy, easily transported cabinet.

For $250 (ah, I'm kidding there)

This would be a kind of all-purpose rig, good for practice, recording, or small-medium gigging (with external speaker).

Oh and how about a built-in tuner?