Will electroforming Bartolini 8S pickup covers add unwanted noise when the strings are pressed down?

[puffpuffnopass]

Hello. I've just made my account to have this conversation with my fellow bassists. I've got GAS for a Warmoth P Bass build complete with all shining gold hardware.

In my hypothetical build I like the Bartolini 8S pickups but I don't like the black covers. Earlier today I learned what electroforming is, and I'm real interested in turning these plastic black pickup covers into a mirrored, gold plated metal. I'm aware that the Bart's by themselves are hum-cancelling - no noise when the strings are pressed down on to them.

My question is, in turning the pickup covers metal, would my pickups suddenly start making noise when you press the strings down? Would I be messing with the sound of my pickups in any possible way? Thanks

 

[puffpuffnopass]

I should clarify what exactly electroforming is. The black plastic pickup cover is first coated in a copper plating, then a 24k gold plating. Here's a nice website explaining it. Electroforming - A Brief Guide

 

[BobKos]

First - welcome to Talkbass. Lots of knowledgeable, friendly people here to help.

I guess I am wondering why you would press your strings down? I am visioning left hand pushing them down to the pickup? In that case I have never done that so I don't know what the effect is. Please clarify what you mean.

 

[puffpuffnopass]

I guess I am wondering why you would press your strings down? I am visioning left hand pushing them down to the pickup? In that case I have never done that so I don't know what the effect is. Please clarify what you mean.

alright so on a fender p bass when you touch the string to the coil you hear a corresponding pop through your speaker. I'm asking if that pop would be audible when touching the string to the pickup cover if it is to be 24k gold coated. I'm not talking about playing percussion on the pickups here

 

[Aloe]

hi and welcome to talkbass!

1. there's a thing as grounding the pickup poles, this eliminates hum when touching the poles.
2. if you're going to cover the existing covers with a metal like from the outer side (but not the bottom), the metal won't be in electrical contact with anything (as underlying plastic is electroinsulating), thus likely won't introduce electrostatical noise like the one you experience when touching the poles on a P-bass. also please note that a metal cover is normally grounded.
3. typically metallic covers do change sound a bit, as it's just between two magnetically-reacting components.
4. pure gold is not magnetic, but a golden alloy typically is.

 

[jeff62]

Since you don't want your strings anywhere near your pickups while playing, or even near enough to exhibit a magnetic pull on the strings, why would it matter at all what happens when you force the string onto the pickup cover? Pragmatically, the string should never get close.

Or this: Metallic Gold Spray paint

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Assuming the plating is conductive when you’re done that could be pretty easily grounded which should eliminate most noise. I’d be more concerned about what dunking the pickup in the tank is going to do to pickup.

 

[puffpuffnopass]

hi and welcome to talkbass!

1. there's a thing as grounding the pickup poles, this eliminates hum when touching the poles.
2. if you're going to cover the existing covers with a metal like from the outer side (but not the bottom), the metal won't be in electrical contact with anything (as underlying plastic is electroinsulating), thus likely won't introduce electrostatical noise like the one you experience when touching the poles on a P-bass. also please note that a metal cover is normally grounded.
3. typically metallic covers do change sound a bit, as it's just between two magnetically-reacting components.
4. pure gold is not magnetic, but a golden alloy typically is.

Thank you. With your answer sounds like I'm good so far

 

[puffpuffnopass]

Since you don't want your strings anywhere near your pickups while playing, or even near enough to exhibit a magnetic pull on the strings, why would it matter at all what happens when you force the string onto the pickup cover? Pragmatically, the string should never get close.

Or this: Metallic Gold Spray paint

i think I've answered your first question already earlier in the thread. I want to avoid paint because every other piece of hardware on the bass will have a polished gold look to them. Plus I'd like the top of the pickup where I rest my thumb to show wear through the plating over the years. Worst case scenario, I will have to get the pickup painted.

 

[puffpuffnopass]

Assuming the plating is conductive when you’re done that could be pretty easily grounded which should eliminate most noise. I’d be more concerned about what dunking the pickup in the tank is going to do to pickup.

Ok great thanks yes under the gold plating is a conductive copper plating. I'm waiting for Bartolini to get back to me about sending me the pickup cover without the pickup in it, plate it, then send it back to them for assembly. 99.999999999% that won't work. I think I'd be able to mask off the exposed wires and the small hole they go into when the pickup gets dunked. Besides the back of the pickup where the wires go in, its water tight

 

[Alban]

Not sure if you really want to commit to the Bartolinis, but there are some really good (much better than Barts, imho) alternatives that would fit your plans;

[This invalid link has been removed]

Sixties P™ | DiMarzio

From its distinctive tone to its definitive growl, the Sixties P™ is the embodiment of everything that made the sound of the old school Fender Precision Bass great. Built on the shape of our sculpted Relentless™ metal covers, DiMarzio uses vintage style enamel-coated wire and flush-mounted...

www.dimarzio.com

Relentless™ Middle | DiMarzio

The Relentless™ bass pickups begin with our newly sculpted metal covers that add form and function. Although Billy Sheehan has always loved the sound of DiMarzio bass pickups, his playing style inspired him to modify the exteriors. Billy used to build them up with epoxy to round off the sharp...

www.dimarzio.com

 

[puffpuffnopass]

Not sure if you really want to commit to the Bartolinis, but there are some really good (much better than Barts, imho) alternatives that would fit your plans;

[This invalid link has been removed]

Sixties P™ | DiMarzio

From its distinctive tone to its definitive growl, the Sixties P™ is the embodiment of everything that made the sound of the old school Fender Precision Bass great. Built on the shape of our sculpted Relentless™ metal covers, DiMarzio uses vintage style enamel-coated wire and flush-mounted...

www.dimarzio.com

Relentless™ Middle | DiMarzio

The Relentless™ bass pickups begin with our newly sculpted metal covers that add form and function. Although Billy Sheehan has always loved the sound of DiMarzio bass pickups, his playing style inspired him to modify the exteriors. Billy used to build them up with epoxy to round off the sharp...

www.dimarzio.com

Ah yes thank you. I'm from SLO county, I've wanted Bart's for a long long long long time. I love Billy Sheehan's strings to death, of course I entertained his signature pickup. I prefer the idea of pairing a nice amp and pre amp above my cab, and a medium output pickup. To be honest in my day or two glued to my screen over this, I believe I would choose the Bartolini 8CPB's over the 8S's. But to be fair, this build is a long way away. At least, the body is. I want to get gold 6150 frets on a Warmoth neck, but once the fretwire is gone, it's gone. 6150 is the only size left and they won't tell me how much is left lol. I'm more than likely going to be ordering the neck a lot sooner than the rest of the bass. Family, budgeting, all that. But I'd love to invest in this "forever bass" here

 

[Hillie]

2. if you're going to cover the existing covers with a metal like from the outer side (but not the bottom), the metal won't be in electrical contact with anything (as underlying plastic is electroinsulating), thus likely won't introduce electrostatical noise like the one you experience when touching the poles on a P-bass. also please note that a metal cover is normally grounded.

If the pickup cavity is shielded, the screw that sits on the lug of the cover might create a connection between the cavity shielding and the conductive cover, something to be aware of. Likely won't give problems though, but the screw could create a contact between cover and shield.

 

[puffpuffnopass]

If the pickup cavity is shielded, the screw that sits on the lug of the cover might create a connection between the cavity shielding and the conductive cover, something to be aware of. Likely won't give problems though, but the screw could create a contact between cover and shield.

Thanks I'll keep that in mind

 

[Hillie]

By the way, EMG also has a set of golden P pickups, the Les Claypool Pachyderm set.


Edit: please post some pics when your bass is complete, sounds like something awesome!

 

[micguy]

Plating your pickups with copper and then gold will change the sound. Gibson's Les Paul pickups have nickel silver covers - a very specific metal - why? Because it's conductive, but not too conductive - it's conductive enough to shield electrostatic noise pretty well, but not conductive enough to mess up the sound too much. Brass would be a lot cheaper, but it snot used, because...it messes things up too much.

Copper is a VERY good conductor. Gold is also. In this case, when you plate copper and then gold, the copper will be the issue. Why? Because gold is really expensive, so they're going to put a VERY thin flash of gold on your pickups. The copper underneath that gold is going to be much more conductive, because that layer will be much thicker. If I were designing pickups that wanted to be gold on top, I'm sure I could do it, but It'd take several tries to get the plating spec right (I've done things like this for work). How many tries do you have? Do you have the equipment to measure the thickness of platings and such, so you have some idea of how to steer the next try?

What I'm saying is what you are asking for isn't impossible, but given that you're going to have someone do plating (with no understanding of what you're trying to optimize), your chances of getting what you want on the first try are pretty slim.

 

[puffpuffnopass]

By the way, EMG also has a set of golden P pickups, the Les Claypool Pachyderm set.


Edit: please post some pics when your bass is complete, sounds like something awesome!

I hadn't heard of those, I'll look them up later. And thanks, it might be a year+ down the road, but I'll keep my word. I'll come back to this post, grab your screen name, and tag you when I do. I'd like to do a black-to-clear burst on black korina with natural masked edges. Rear routed electronics, clear plexiglass pickguard. Hipshot A style bridge, thumb rest in its traditional spot over the E string. Wenge neck, Macassar Ebony fretboard with the brown stripes to match the body. Black neck binding, gold pearloid block inlays, Hipshot Ultralight Tuners and a 3-string string holder on the headstock. Very pricey but it's what I want.

 

[puffpuffnopass]

Plating your pickups with copper and then gold will change the sound. Gibson's Les Paul pickups have nickel silver covers - a very specific metal - why? Because it's conductive, but not too conductive - it's conductive enough to shield electrostatic noise pretty well, but not conductive enough to mess up the sound too much. Brass would be a lot cheaper, but it snot used, because...it messes things up too much.

Copper is a VERY good conductor. Gold is also. In this case, when you plate copper and then gold, the copper will be the issue. Why? Because gold is really expensive, so they're going to put a VERY thin flash of gold on your pickups. The copper underneath that gold is going to be much more conductive, because that layer will be much thicker. If I were designing pickups that wanted to be gold on top, I'm sure I could do it, but It'd take several tries to get the plating spec right (I've done things like this for work). How many tries do you have? Do you have the equipment to measure the thickness of platings and such, so you have some idea of how to steer the next try?

What I'm saying is what you are asking for isn't impossible, but given that you're going to have someone do plating (with no understanding of what you're trying to optimize), your chances of getting what you want on the first try are pretty slim.

If you check out the link the company states the gold plating is quite thick and has a protective coating over it. Using all the options electroforming offers, the end result couldn't possible end up being a thin 24k gold plating. But you're the first to say copper is a bad idea and to use. Perhaps after the weekend I should make call around to the pickup manufacturers who make gold plated pickups, and ask what metal they use underneath the gold. But yeah I don't think a thin layer of gold is going to be an issue. I'm expecting to pay well over $100 dollars for this mod if that's what it takes for a professionally made one-off piece.

I also had a thought of just having it powder coated. I don't know much about the process but according to google, you can get a mirrored gold polish on something from powder coating it. Didn't really think of that one before today.

 

[Hillie]

I hadn't heard of those, I'll look them up later. And thanks, it might be a year+ down the road, but I'll keep my word. I'll come back to this post, grab your screen name, and tag you when I do. I'd like to do a black-to-clear burst on black korina with natural masked edges. Rear routed electronics, clear plexiglass pickguard. Hipshot A style bridge, thumb rest in its traditional spot over the E string. Wenge neck, Macassar Ebony fretboard with the brown stripes to match the body. Black neck binding, gold pearloid block inlays, Hipshot Ultralight Tuners and a 3-string string holder on the headstock. Very pricey but it's what I want.

Sounds great! I'm always interested in seeing what people create.

 

[puffpuffnopass]

Honestly I've discovered the Gunpla hobbyists and it seems there's lots of high quality paints out there that do exactly what I want. Didn't quite realize until now. I'll likely pay one of these hobbyists who owns top of the line paint spray guns and a paint booth to color match my pickups to the bridge or something. Thanks for the replies everyone.