Will Fender still have the MIM basses?

[40Hz]

I thought every standard pickup on the MIM P's were abismal. Sounded like S**T. They use ceramic magnets. I replaced every pick up I owned (MIM P) to Fender Original '62 or Duncan SPB-1 Both alnico 5 design. Big big improvements to my ear and judgement. By the way alnico is a magnetic material made of Aluminum, nickle and cobalt. Ceramic, I am unsure of. Some baked compound maybe?

Possibly it's more just the ones you heard? MIMs do tend to be all over the place when it comes to tone (and weight!) based on my experiences with them. However, I have a 2014 MIM PB where the stock pickups sounded just fine. And I've got many years of playing bass and easily over 100 different PBs (MIA, MIM, and MIJ) I've played during that time to compare it to.

Dunno. Luck of the draw maybe?

By the same token Alembic and Gibson have both used ceramic magnets in some of their pickups with excellent results. As had the legendary Bill Lawrence with some of his. So I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with ceramic pickups per se.

A magnetic field is a magnetic field. The differences are found in the focus, strength and geometry of the field and not the material itself - which is where good pickup design comes into play. As any knowledgeable pickup designer will tell you, there's a lot more to pickup engineering than just what type of magnets are being used.

There's no such thing as a "tone magnet." At least not yet...although I'm sure some marketing guy will eventually get around to making that claim. (You heard it here first, folks!) Hmm...I smell profit opportunity. Now where did I put that link to form your own Delaware corporation for $100?

Life goes on. It's all good.

 

[MtManiac]

I fazes me when I see people making cynical comments about how Fender makes a few minor changes to a product line, gives it a new name, and charges a higher price. This is how capitalism and marketing work, folks. There's nothing more American than this. There's nothing shady going on, nobody is "pulling the wool over your eyes," there's no shell game, and they don't have to do a thing to justify a $50-75 price hike. It's the same thing Microsoft, GM, and Apple have been doing for years, and GE and RCA before them. What is it you want? The recent years' MIM build quality is excellent, better than or at par with entire decades of MIA Fender build quality, and you get a perfectly playable and upgradeable mofo of a bass, built by an American trade partner, for under a grand. With the Player series, they've upgraded the pickups, finally, and introduced some new colours that are way nicer than the old 90s-00s midnight wine, electric blue, and standard black and white offerings. If for whatever reason you don't like the Korean pots, spend $5 and change them. I expect the excellent build quality from the past decade of MIMs to continue or even improve.

And who cares where they are made? Globalism is an inevitable response within a capitalist economy to the need to increase shareholder value, sending labour to other countries where it is cheaper, so there's nobody to complain to except your elected representatives and they don't care how you feel about it - Fender didn't invent it, the market did. I can buy a MIM Standard/Player for ~$800 CAD or an American Professional for $1949 CAD. There's no question the Professional is nicer, but where it is built isn't a part of that, its build specs and QA are responsible for it, and there's no way rolled fretboard edges, slightly different pickups, CTS pots, and higher frets are worth $1100 more when at the end of the day you still just have a P bass or a J bass that sounds more or less identical to a MIM with some DiMarzios or EMGs added. They *are* nicer - but not that much nicer!

 

[jd56hawk]

Possibly it's more just the ones you heard? Mims tend to be all over the place when it comes to tone based on my experience. However, I have a 2014 MIM PB where the stock pickups sounded just fine. And I've got many years of playing bass and easily over 100 different PBs (MIA, MIM, and MIJ) I've played during that time to compare it to.

Dunno. Luck of the draw maybe?

By the same token Alembic and Gibson have both used ceramic magnets in some of their pickups with excellent results. As had the legendary Bill Lawrence with some of his. So I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with ceramic pickups per se.

A magnetic field is a magnetic field. The differences are found in the focus, strength and geometry of the field and not the material itself - which is where good pickup design comes into play. As any knowledgeable pickup designer will tell you, there's a lot more to pickup engineering than just what type of magnets are being used.

There's no such thing as a "tone magnet." At least not yet...although I'm sure some marketing guy will eventually get around to making that claim. (You heard it here first, folks!) Hmm...I smell profit opportunity. Now where did I put that link to form your own Delaware corporation for $100?

Life goes on. It's all good.

My Reverend Thundergun and G&L L2000 both have ceramic magnets.
Part of the reason for the killer tone.

 

[40Hz]

My Reverend Thundergun and G&L L2000 both have ceramic magnets.
Part of the reason for the killer tone.

Yep. Both my Rippers have Indox ceramics as is the SuperFerrite in my Peavey T-20. All three of those basses can sing - and roar.

 

[rodv66]

The MIM line is fine. I have played ones as good as some MIAs. They are basic, but do the job for the average player. I can get a used MIM bass for less than 400$. Even adding new pickups still way ahead price wise. If I was a full time pro musican, them might go MIA, but to be honest, would probably still go with a MIJ

 

[40Hz]

rolled fretboard edges

Agree with your entire post. But especially about that. Talk about making a something out of nothing. To me the question isn't why I'd want rolled edges. The real question is, for the amount of time and effort it requires, why isn't Fender doing it automatically on everything they make. When did doing something right that costs nothing to do become a premium feature?

Just take a socket wrench barrel, or a similar smooth steel rod, and firmly but gently pass it up and down the length of your fretboard edges a few times if you think they feel too sharp.

Voila! Rolled edges.

No charge, man! This one's on the house. Have a nice day!

 

[jd56hawk]

Yep. Both my Rippers have Indox ceramics as is the SuperFerrite in my Peavey T-20. All three of those basses can sing - and roar.

Not sure if the poster above was saying all ceramic models are bad or just the MIM ones, but whatever pickups I have in my new Squier VM put the old Duncan-designed ones to shame.

 

[BubbaZed]

I fazes me when I see people making cynical comments about how Fender makes a few minor changes to a product line, gives it a new name, and charges a higher price. This is how capitalism and marketing work, folks. There's nothing more American than this. There's nothing shady going on, nobody is "pulling the wool over your eyes," there's no shell game, and they don't have to do a thing to justify a $50-75 price hike. It's the same thing Microsoft, GM, and Apple have been doing for years, and GE and RCA before them. What is it you want? The recent years' MIM build quality is excellent, better than or at par with entire decades of MIA Fender build quality, and you get a perfectly playable and upgradeable mofo of a bass, built by an American trade partner, for under a grand. With the Player series, they've upgraded the pickups, finally, and introduced some new colours that are way nicer than the old 90s-00s midnight wine, electric blue, and standard black and white offerings. If for whatever reason you don't like the Korean pots, spend $5 and change them. I expect the excellent build quality from the past decade of MIMs to continue or even improve.

And who cares where they are made? Globalism is an inevitable response within a capitalist economy to the need to increase shareholder value, sending labour to other countries where it is cheaper, so there's nobody to complain to except your elected representatives and they don't care how you feel about it - Fender didn't invent it, the market did. I can buy a MIM Standard/Player for ~$800 CAD or an American Professional for $1949 CAD. There's no question the Professional is nicer, but where it is built isn't a part of that, it's build specs and QA are responsible for it, and there's no way rolled fretboard edges, slightly different pickups, CTS pots, and higher frets are worth $1100 more when at the end of the day you still just have a P bass or a J bass that sounds more or less identical to a MIM with some DiMarzios or EMGs added. They *are* nicer - but not that much nicer!

It's not just Fender. Across the board it's also Ernie Ball, Rickenbacker, Gibson, etc. In general the price for the exact same bass has gone up. Inflation and economics, kids.

 

[40Hz]

Not sure if the poster above was saying all ceramic models are bad or just the MIM ones, but whatever pickups I have in my new Squier VM put the old Duncan-designed ones to shame.

The Matt Freeman pups are awesome. The only reason I changed mine out was because I prefer a less agressive more old school pickup in my PBs.

That said I've turned down offers to sell them. Because I just might want to put them back some day. And they're unique to that bass and not available separately. So they're carefully packed away in my parts inventory.

But that neck! It's mine. My precious! my precious...my precious...can'ts have it nasty Baggins!!!

The next person to get that neck will be named in my will. Even if I ever sell that Matt Freeman (highly unlikely) it'll go out the door as a loaded body. That neck is going nowhere as long as I'm alive.

 

[BubbaZed]

It's not just Fender. Across the board it's also Ernie Ball, Rickenbacker, Gibson, etc. In general the price for the exact same bass has gone up. Inflation and economics, kids.

Example: I recently did the whole idiotic Musiciansfriend inquiry on a Rickenbacker 4003. The price came back as 2249! Yikes! Not to long ago they could be had in the 1800-1900 range and at the time MF was offering a 10% discount on them. So I could have gotten a brand new one for $1600 bucks. But then I realized why I didn't have one in the first place.

 

[Blaargh]

I'm just seeing so much misinformation in this post.

The pots are not "cheap Chinese pot-metal", and are the exact same pots that have been used in the Mexican Standards for at least the past few years. The pots are Korean made Jin Sung. Yes, I actually took my bass apart, and looked at them. I still have pictures from 2015- 2016, where I had disassembled a fairly new (at that time) MIM P bass, and the pots are identical. I have been seeing these Jin Sung pots for at least the past few years. Did MIM Standards come stock with CTS pots at one point? Maybe they did, but the switch to the Korean pots happened several years ago, and not just recently, to "cheapen out" the revamped line.

MIM Standard pickguards have always been white (parchment, actually). Still are.

As far as the supposed nut issues..again.. mine is perfect. Maybe I got lucky....?

Basic construction of this bass, wiring, etc, is identical to the "old" Standards. Nothing looks or feels cheaper, by any means. At least not in reference to MIM Standards of the past few years.

I just think it's kind of a shame to make your mind up about something, based on what is likely a complete load of BS.
Try it yourself. Catch some real hands-on reviews... then decide.

Cheers for posting- Basically the only useful post in the whole thread.

Kinda amazed it can get to seven pages of whinging without anyone having even touched a damn thing.

 

[Fletz]

How is this thread so long? They changed the name of the MIM Standard Series.

 

[jd56hawk]

The Matt Freeman pups are awesome. The only reason I changed mine out was because I prefer a less agressive more old school pickup in my PBs.

That said I've turned down offers to sell them. Because I just might want to put them back some day. And they're unique to that bass and not available separately. So they're carefully packed away in my parts inventory.

But that neck! It's mine. My precious! my precious...my precious...can'ts have it nasty Baggins!!!

The next person to get that neck will be named in my will. Even if I ever sell that Matt Freeman (highly unlikely) it'll go out the door as a loaded body. That neck is going nowhere as long as I'm alive.

Wish I had your wherewithal.
I've sold plenty of basses, but one I was a fool to get rid of.

 

[MtManiac]

Makes two of us.

I used to be a tone wood believer. But then I really started listening and did my own research and came to the conclusion that any effect the wood might have on a solidbody was extremely minor compared to the huge tonal differences you could get by changing strings, pickups, or the EQ settings on your amp. And even if it did make a huge difference, since no two pieces of wood are identical, there's no way you can exactly duplicate a bass anyway. So that's when I realized there's little point in focusing on the wood except when thinking about weight. Some basses are going to sound better than others regardless of the wood used in their construction. So rather than rely on unsupported claims about wood species affecting tone, you're far better off just going with what your ears tell you and buy gear that sounds good and stop worrying about it.

Same thing goes for high mass bridges. I now look at those more as something nice to have rather than essential. Ears again.

Amen and hallelujah!

 

[Modest_Moose]

It's not just Fender. Across the board it's also Ernie Ball, Rickenbacker, Gibson, etc. In general the price for the exact same bass has gone up. Inflation and economics, kids.

Yet people dont make more money

 

[MtManiac]

Yeah see and I was just thinking "you can just get the pick guard you want later" but then you have to spend another what... $30+ more on the part, and could end up spending with buying a new pick guard... They're $50+ on fenders website to close to $100 on some which is absurd. You can end up spending with the extra cost already on the instrument, and if you have to have the a different pick guard that's up to $100 extra you've spend on essentially the same instrument they were just selling for less. I know that apparently the PUPS aren't ceramic and now Alinco so there's that upgrade i guess. I personally prefer the ceramics in my 05' jazz to just about anything I play but I probably just lucked out as I've been told they quality varies a lot in those ceramics

FWIW perfectly good pickguards can be found on Amazon for around $10-20. I've bought a few and have not been disappointed. They fit and the screw holes are in the right spots, and they're three or four ply in black, tortoiseshell, pearloid, etc.

 

[MtManiac]

Fender Announces New Player Series to Replace MIM Standards

In other words, we've moved production to China (probably) and are renaming them so we can up what we charge by a healthy margin.

Where does it say that they're being made in China? And what difference does that make if all else is equal?

 

[Modest_Moose]

FWIW perfectly good pickguards can be found on Amazon for around $10-20. I've bought a few and have not been disappointed. They fit and the screw holes are in the right spots, and they're three or four ply in black, tortoiseshell, pearloid, etc.

Yeah I've definitely had luck on Amazon I just wonder if these pickguards won't be cut as standard but they likely are. Some people are weird and have to buy certain ones that'll cost more

 

[MtManiac]

I saw this and also read the Reddit blog - (if true) what surprises me the most, is how any of this could have happened.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the MIM Standard Series of yesterday the exact same thing as the Player Series of today - made in the same factories by the same workers on the same assembly lines.

How could this much margin of error be occurring? It's not like they're reinventing the wheel here.

People have complained about the same things from MIM, MIA, and Squiers for decades. In 36 years of playing, I have yet to cut my hand on a fret end. I don't know how this happens.

 

[BubbaZed]

Yet people dont make more money

Sure they do. But does it match the rising costs of inflation? And making money is a completely subjective based upon personal ambitions.