Double Bass Wilson users

[crd]

I am trying to figure out my pick-up set-up for a new bass and would love to hear user feedback before I pull the trigger on anything.

I've happily used a Realist into a TecAmp bonafide or Walter Woods with a MAS 4.5 cabinet for many years and am changing double basses this fall so am rethinking my set-up for the new bass. For the new bass, I am moving to a seasonal bridge with no adjusters and would really like to not have anything under the bridge foot if I can help it, even though I like the Realist sound.

I've been looking at the Wilson K1 or K5 as a possible Realist replacement. Does anyone have any experience with it? Does anyone out there use a Wilson K4 or K5 mixed with a mic or the Ischell C3 specifically? Is the NHOP sound baked into the Wilson system or just a result of his preferences and the amplification typical of his time period? Does the K5 have a volume control for each piezo or are you just rotating the element so it is either facing the string or the body of the instrument?

Yes, I know the Wilson requires drilling holes in your bridge. For whatever reason this bothers me less than a metal shim under the bridge. I use gut strings and am constantly having to reposition my bridge due to the Realist. It sounds great but drives me nuts.

 

[basster]

i'm using k1 for many many years on both of my less or more amplified uprights. so yes, i've lots of experience with it on different basses with different amps and strings and mixed with different mics. it does, what a piezo does: it helps you to amplifie your signal. i prefer the k1 with one element because i don't like too many holes in the bridge. the way to change the overall sound a little bit by turning the element is a very nice feature, i'm using it when i switch from gut to steel strings. i mix it with an ischell (older one, xyz 48???) on the one and a 4099 on the other bass, both works fine. there's no reason why it shouldn't.

i prefer the k1 because it's such a simple thing. there are lots of players out there who prefer other pickups. i don't like the realist, f.e., because my instruments are acoustically somewhat boomy and this is hard to control with an on-top pickup. and the bridge wingers seem (!!!) to kill the vibrations of the bridge in a way i don't like.

the NHOP sound was based on NHOPs skills. i met him a few times, i had some serious lessons with him and yes, the amplification of these days has been a part of his sound. 2 % amp, 98 % practice and playin' all over the world only with the best musicians.

the k4/5 has no volume control for each string. the player is the volume control for each single note ....

 

[Eric Hochberg]

The Wilson is the polar opposite of a Realist tonewise. Extreme midrange as opposed to very dark. A middle ground would be a Full Circle or Schertler Stat B. You'll have to try different PUs to find the sound you like on your new bass.

 

[crd]

@basster Thank you! That is all very helpful. The K1 mixed with an Ischell seems like it may be the ticket for me. I'm not a fan of the NHOP sound although I have deep respect for his skills. I was more wondering if the K1 sounds a little less fretless bass than most of the K4 samples I can find.

@Eric Hochberg I was kind of curious if the placement of the K1 (closer to the bridge foot) made it more similar to a Realist and darker than the K4/5. I am curious about the Stat B Vintage but am a little weary of the installation and wonder if it would get bumped coming in about of the case and car etc.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

@Eric Hochberg I was kind of curious if the placement of the K1 (closer to the bridge foot) made it more similar to a Realist and darker than the K4/5. I am curious about the Stat B Vintage but am a little weary of the installation and wonder if it would get bumped coming in about of the case and car etc.

I had a K4 but no experience with a K1, and yes it may be worth trying lower on the leg of the bridge.

I would start with a single element Stat B. Once they are correctly seated, they are pretty stable. I've never had one completely fall out of a bridge, but minor adjustments are necessary from time to time which is no big deal. The double element Stat was not an improvement on my basses and can be a little "phasey". My impression is that Stats have a more refined sound than most piezo's I've tried. That being said, my bud who uses my bass when he's in town, prefers the single element Underwood which is also on the bridge.

 

[Ric Vice]

If you enjoyed the sound that came from your existing setup i.e. Realist>Tecamp/Woods>MAS 4x5 then we have a very similar setup. For about 18 months I used a Ehrlund EAP>Walter Woods Ultra>MAS 4x5.
My current setup is a Ehrlund EAP>Grace Designs Felix>Powered MAS 4x5.5 or 1/8. It's truly the best sound I've ever experienced with my bass. I would encourage you to at least demo a EAP with your new bass
and Tecamp/Woods 4x5. If it works you'll be amazed. Just my take of course

 

[crd]

If you enjoyed the sound that came from your existing setup i.e. Realist>Tecamp/Woods>MAS 4x5 then we have a very similar setup. For about 18 months I used a Ehrlund EAP>Walter Woods Ultra>MAS 4x5.
My current setup is a Ehrlund EAP>Grace Designs Felix>Powered MAS 4x5.5 or 1/8. It's truly the best sound I've ever experienced with my bass. I would encourage you to at least demo a EAP with your new bass
and Tecamp/Woods 4x5. If it works you'll be amazed. Just my take of course

You are the only other person who I know of who has/had a MI-400 so I know you have good taste! I'm close to pulling the trigger on a used EAP to see how it works but have held off due to the lack of available audio samples. Also, I am not a fiddler and am a little intimidated about the installation process of the EAP. I want to install it and never think about it again.

I would never have though of a Wilson K1 but have been impressed with this sample which is supposed to be recorded direct to an interface with no eq:

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The K1 in the bridge leg will sound very different from the K4/5 under the strings.
I haven’t had one, but a Bassbalsereit (now under a different trade name) developed originally by a luthier around Cologne. It is mounted at the same position as the K1, just a lot thicker. The sound is somewhere between Full Circle/LifeLine and Realist.
I’m not the biggest fan, but a lot of bassists around Cologne use the Bassbalsereit.
So the K1 might solve your problem.

 

[Ric Vice]

You are the only other person who I know of who has/had a MI-400 so I know you have good taste! I'm close to pulling the trigger on a used EAP to see how it works but have held off due to the lack of available audio samples. Also, I am not a fiddler and am a little intimidated about the installation process of the EAP. I want to install it and never think about it again.

Well we just happened to be in the market for a new amplifier from Walter Woods when he was building the last of the MI series amps circa 1992-93. Walter told me that there were only about 50 of the MI-400’s and 600’s built. I’ll post you a EAP sample to your inbox tomorrow. The thing to remember is that neither the Wilson or the EAP will sound the same on your bass as they do on my bass or Joseph’s

 

[crd]

Well we just happened to be in the market for a new amplifier from Walter Woods when he was building the last of the MI series amps circa 1992-93. Walter told me that there were only about 50 of the MI-400’s and 600’s built. I’ll post you a EAP sample to your inbox tomorrow. The thing to remember is that neither the Wilson or the EAP will sound the same on your bass as they do on my bass or Joseph’s

Ha! Yes. Thanks for doing that. I know recording can be a pain and I appreciate it.

 

[crd]

I grabbed the EAP that was up used in the classifieds here. The new bass should be here in a month or so I will update this thread without how it goes. I figured I will exhaust my possible options before I do any drilling.

I've been happy with the Ischell on my current bass so I am planning to send that FOH and hopefully get good enough noise rejection to use the EAP with my amp. I think I've been happy with the Realist mostly because I have a big acoustic sound and am actually hearing 90% my bass onstage and 10% amp most of the time. My current bass/rig is not easy to play so part of what I am looking for in the new bass is a little more ease of use cause I'm not getting any younger.

 

[Kristian]

I used the K1 for many years with great results. I used to either play acoustically or with a mick and only used it when it got to loud and it sounded ok.

The last years I’ve been playing a small, five stringed Bassetto and it has been difficult to get a good balance between the strings.
For this reason I first had a magnetic pickup built for this instrument and it worked but didn’t make any sound with the bow.
Then I bought a second hand Wilson K4 and had it built together with my K1. I installed it 1cm under each string and I carefully adjusted/rotated each element until I got a good balance between the strings and a sound I was happy with.
I think most people don’t spend enough time adjusting this pickup because there are many different sounds possible.
I’m running it trough a tube preamp and I’m having the best, cleanest sound that I’ve ever had. No piezo quack, no disturbing mids, it sounds quite much like my bass actually. I also think that installing it 1cm from the strings instead of 8mm makes a big difference because I’m not getting any of the Wilson „distortion“ that some people seems to get when they dig in to much.

On bigger stages I mix it with an Ischell and that also works really good.
Soon I’ll try it together with the Xlson.

 

[crd]

@Kristian Thanks for sharing that. If I don't get what I'm looking for out of the EAP, the Wilson k5 will be the next thing I try.

 

[Kristian]

@Kristian Thanks for sharing that. If I don't get what I'm looking for out of the EAP, the Wilson k5 will be the next thing I try.

Good luck with the EAP.
I’ve used it a lot but couldn’t play loud enough with it for some gigs(boomy sound from the speaker. Sounded good on recordings however).
For me, the ischell worked better.

 

[crd]

I know it can be a pain but if you ever get a chance to make a direct recording of the Wilson I would appreciate it. But I know that's kind of a lot to ask.

I'm a little worried about noise rejection with the EAP mostly cause I know if it happen's, it will happen at the worst time. Some of my groups are very loud for acoustic jazz.

 

[Kristian]

Some people put it direct on the bridge when they need to play loud. You could try that!

 

[Kentos]

Just installed the K1 on my MK EUB.

It sounds pretty even thru G to E string. I think this is because MK can sound pretty loud without an amplifier. G might sound quieter on other EUBs but there is no problem with my MK

The original pickup has more overtones and can translates articulation better. However, K1 sounds clearer and can cut thru in the band better. Also original pickup sounds harsh at high end but K1 doesn’t.