Wireless: Sennheiser vs Line 6

[Drop-the-One]

yay! so I'm not crazy

and yea, i was about 40 feet away... outside, in a cul-de-sac

so that makes sense

 

[walterw]

another new but satisfied g50 user here.

i too was worried about digital latency until i figured out that i got more latency standing 20' away from my amp vs. 6'.

as for batteries, it's cool to know that i can squeeze two gigs out of two AAs, but check this out: i scored these for cheap at Link Removed, and so far they're fantastic.

they actually store a little more than 1.5 volts (more like 1.8v), and after two full-night gigs on the same initial charge, the pair i used still read over 1.6 volts! (i measured.)

this means that according to the meter on the transmitter, after two long gigs they're still over 100% fully charged.

 

[JackANSI]

this means that according to the meter on the transmitter, after two long gigs they're still over 100% fully charged.

Don't confuse this with having a full charge. The meter on the G50 is based off voltage. Start with a cell that runs at a higher nominal voltage (or a different chemistry) from what Line 6 is expecting (alkaline) and the meter should be considered completely wrong.

Keep in mind that the Powergenix is a ~1500mAh cell and your average Duracell Alkaline is ~2850mAh.

Take a look at Powergenix's own spec sheet: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

You will see that at the .2C discharge rate (thats ~300mA) chart (lowest the sheet has, roughly the rate of consumption the G50 runs at on low power) They go from 1.5v to 1.3v in what roughly equals 10 minutes. I believe the cut off in the G50 is 1.05v per cell.

If you follow that chart and take some cues from the others, my guess is those Powergenix cells will go from still showing a 100% charge to the '20 minute warning' in about 10 minutes and then to shut down in another 8-10 minutes. If your 1.6V measurement was fresh out of the transmitter after use (no recovery), you'd roughly have 40-50 minutes left.

Basically you'll have 18-20 minutes to recongize that you need to change batteries (and do it) from the time the G50 meter first shows a drop. Roughly you'll have a song or two from the time your receiver starts flashing red before you cut out.

Definitely glad you tried those cells out and found they worked. I was hesitant to try them because they have been known to fry camera flashes and destroy things sensitive to input voltage (like LED based flashlights). Might have to get me some of those after I run out of alkaline's sometime next year

 

[walterw]

Take a look at Powergenix's own spec sheet: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

aha.

i'm having a hard time reading that curve ("1C" or "2C" doesn't mean celsius, does it ), but you're suggesting that these things will reach 1.5v or lower just before they die. i'll have to test that scenario and get back here with my findings.

 

[JonnyAngle]

I have owned both units. The Sennheiser is a "better" unit IMO. The instant you turn it on there is sound. With the Line 6 there may be a second or 2 delay before the trans and rec are synched. However, the line 6 fits on your pedalboard and can be powerd by a 1 spot. For a gigging musician, I recommend the Line 6 purely for the convenience factor. The Sennheiser had to sit on my amp, then I ran a cableto my pedals, and another cable back. With the line 6 it's one cable.

Sennheiser= Quality
Line6= Convenience

 

[rockstarbassist]

I have owned both units. The Sennheiser is a "better" unit IMO. The instant you turn it on there is sound. With the Line 6 there may be a second or 2 delay before the trans and rec are synched. However, the line 6 fits on your pedalboard and can be powerd by a 1 spot. For a gigging musician, I recommend the Line 6 purely for the convenience factor. The Sennheiser had to sit on my amp, then I ran a cableto my pedals, and another cable back. With the line 6 it's one cable.

Sennheiser= Quality
Line6= Convenience

How often are you already playing a gig/notes before you turn on your amp and system? That makes it a "better" unit? Mmkay... I imagine soundguys must love you.

 

[warnergt]

Our guitarist uses the Line 6 Relay G50. I borrowed it for a week to
evaluate it and I have to say that I'm thoroughly impressed.

I connected the receiver to my amp in my basement and I took my bass
outside. I was able to completely circle my house without losing a note.

I was curious what the delay actually was; they never actually mention
this in the specifications. So, I hooked it up to my oscilloscope and
measured it. It was 4 milliseconds. This is trivial. It is the time it
takes sound to travel 4 feet.

Our guitarist chose the G50 over the G30 based solely on the construction.
The G50 just seemed to be better built.

My only criticism of the G50 was that it seems that the transmitter
is a little hard on batteries. I would never play a gig without first
installing a fresh set of batteries. One set of batteries will certainly
get you through one gig. Two gigs? Based on my experience,
probably not.

 

[Drop-the-One]

I have owned both units. The Sennheiser is a "better" unit IMO. The instant you turn it on there is sound. With the Line 6 there may be a second or 2 delay before the trans and rec are synched. However, the line 6 fits on your pedalboard and can be powerd by a 1 spot. For a gigging musician, I recommend the Line 6 purely for the convenience factor. The Sennheiser had to sit on my amp, then I ran a cableto my pedals, and another cable back. With the line 6 it's one cable.

Sennheiser= Quality
Line6= Convenience

Awesome

... have you had any issues with tone, interference or anything like that at all?

 

[Greyfin10]

How often are you already playing a gig/notes before you turn on your amp and system? That makes it a "better" unit? Mmkay... I imagine soundguys must love you.

Granted, I have the X2 rather than the G50, but I actually run into this all the time. In practice I often turn the transmitter off when not in use to conserve batteries. And during performances I switch transmitters (they are attached to my straps) when I change basses, and the startup 2 seconds can feel like a long time in that situation. Granted, this is a minor quibble, but it's not without merit.

And for those stuck with the older X2, I can't sing the praise of [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]enough. They are more expensive, but they last several times longer than regular batteries.

As far as rechargeables, I had lousy luck there. Spent about $100 bucks on several batteries and a recharger and they last HALF as long as a regular battery. This was a Radio Shack brand... I'm sure different rechargeables behave differently.

 

[walterw]

And for those stuck with the older X2, I can't sing the praise of [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]enough. They are more expensive, but they last several times longer than regular batteries.

As far as rechargeables, I had lousy luck there. Spent about $100 bucks on several batteries and a recharger and they last HALF as long as a regular battery. This was a Radio Shack brand... I'm sure different rechargeables behave differently.

now for rechargeable 9Vs, i know what i'm talking about.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] will last longer than regular alkalines in high-drain stuff like wireless units (i've been using them for years now, i can get two gigs out of my shure IEM receiver with one charge, vs. 1 gig with a regular alkaline.)

 

[JackANSI]

aha.

i'm having a hard time reading that curve ("1C" or "2C" doesn't mean celsius, does it ), but you're suggesting that these things will reach 1.5v or lower just before they die. i'll have to test that scenario and get back here with my findings.

If you were to charge or discharge a battery at "1C" you are doing so at a rate equal to its capacity. 1C on a 1500mah battery would be 1500ma. 2C would be 3000ma. 0.2C would be 300ma.

Those cells will drain below 1.5v, but the cells are almost flat at 1.3v and if you draw the line out using the 1 and 3 C as a reference, its a nearly straight down line at the end of the cell's capacity at a higher voltage than the g50 shows an alkaline as "dying" (and the powergenix isn't dying, its dead).

Basically im saying that using a battery other than alkaline means the meter on the g50 is worthless and you have to hawkeye the level when you aren't sure the state of charge. Not that the powergenix aren't a wise choice.

 

[walterw]

well, you called it perfectly.

the same pair of AAs hung just fine for two gigs, and for the first set of the third gig a week later.

beginning the second set, the display showed full charge, but about 3 songs in, they were DOA (no display, no nuthin').

the display is therefore worthless, but i have my performance baseline, so from now on i'll just swap them out every other gig and i should be fine.

 

[mbrain]

well, you called it perfectly.

the same pair of AAs hung just fine for two gigs, and for the first set of the third gig a week later.

beginning the second set, the display showed full charge, but about 3 songs in, they were DOA (no display, no nuthin').

the display is therefore worthless, but i have my performance baseline, so from now on i'll just swap them out every other gig and i should be fine.

Did you shut off the transmitter between sets? I'll admit the display on my X2 isn't perfect (+/- 30 minutes per the manual, but 40 minutes optimistic in my experience). The manual also correctly indicates that the meter takes a minute or two to stabilize (batteries that aren't under a load put out a higher voltage for a short period after they are loaded). I assume the Relay series works the same way.

 

[walterw]

yep, transmitter was shut off between sets.

what's happening is the rechargeables are staying above 1.5V for most of their "lifespan", then dropping below that right when they're dying. the display therefore only shows "full charge" right up until the unit goes silent.

again, if i just swap them with the fresh pair every other gig i should be in good shape.

 

[Gearhead17]

I need to add something here....after using the G50 for several shows now, I will never go back to a cable. Since I don't have to worry about my singer or drunk girls stepping on my cord any more, I can truly focus on goofing off and playing! The sound of a 20' foot cable rounds off a good amount of high end which comes through in wonderful clarity with my G50.

This idea of audio delay of the wireless unit to the receiver then to the amp - I DON'T HEAR IT. Nor does the soundguy, nor does anyone in the audience.

The G30 transmitter does have a terrible battery closing mechanism while the G50 transmitter is much more robust.

As for the G50's battery consumption, the "time left" displayed on the unit fluctuates and is only somewhat accurate (IME) after 10 minutes of playing. You truly get 8.5 hours to 9 hours of playing out of 2AA's with the G50. I had my transmitter on for two gigs this past Saturday: 1.5 hours straight for one, then three 1 hour sets at the next one. Still have power and the batteries were already a little drained to begin with!

Whatever comment was said the 5 second delay when you turn on the Line 6 unit was a PROBLEM, is nuts. Sorry dude, but if you don't like time delays, I wonder if you throw a tantrum when you turn your amp on?

 

[georgestrings]

Whatever comment was said the 5 second delay when you turn on the Line 6 unit was a PROBLEM, is nuts. Sorry dude, but if you don't like time delays, I wonder if you throw a tantrum when you turn your amp on?

Yeah, I thought that was pretty stupid, too... I've played several thousand gigs in my lifetime, and have never seen a 2 second delay on startup become a big deal - talk about grasping at straws...



- georgestrings

 

[DrSmaggs]

I haven't tried a Line 6 but I have a Sennheiser and it is heavenly!

 

[MrDOS]

I've had so many issues with the min plugs like on the Senn (even used a $30 replacement one), so I have ordered a G30.