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Wizzer cones anyone?

like bill said, here's a vertical array (sorry no wizzers)

grateful1.jpg


and this is a lousy pic, but it's a 1x12 on top of a 1x15 on top of a sideways 2x10. no tipping, sounds much better than the cabs horizontally (sorry, once again no wizzers - although i did have some wizzers in my car stereo)

smalltodaystack.jpg
 
Is that why people notice a strong midrange in the schroeder cabs?Essentially his 410 has two 10s mounted vertically and the two of the same tens off axis in a "horn" - esque fold.

Is that also why poeple notice immediately that a 2x12 cabinet place vertically sounds much different in the mids and when the drivers are horizontal. I used to do that all the time when playing guitar. I'd put my Avatar Gh212 on is side (with drivers stacked) and the midrange was much more prominent. Plus it was easier to hear and adjust my amp. Oh my guitar playing days. How I don't miss them at all :smug:

~Mike

So Bill If I were to place two vertically stacked 12" drivers (in a 212 box) 10 feet apart (on either side of the drumms) will I get the same effect at some point as I back from the center point in front and between the speakers. Basically, can you not avoid I think you said, "horizontal comb filtering?" no matter how far apart you move two drivers on a horizontal plane radiating in the same direction?
 
No, it sounds like the freq depends on the horizontal distance, some fraction/multiple of a wavelength determines the freq. So if you're 10 feet apart instead of 2 drivers horizontally mounted in the same enclosure, the "comb filter" would be active at subsonic freqs. Which means no problem. Right? Am I missing something?

Randy
 
The horizontal dispersion and comb filtering is probably just a tad overblown for most uses....although it is truly present....

First, there is a strong lobe directly forward from the pair of speakers. That varies in width, but remains so long as the speakers are in phase. You likely want that anyway, that is the reason for arrayed speakers of any shape.

Second, as you proceed thru higher and higher frequencies, there is a range where the speakers show lobing, AND the lobing is coarse, meaning there are a few lobes with large dead spots between them. But above that range, the density of lobes and dead spots increases, so that coverage is "better" again....

Third, the exact location of the lobes etc depends on the phase relation of the two drivers. That gets pretty much unknown as frequency increases, particularly with "whizzers". At some frequencies the two may be pretty much uncorrelated, so that the lobes are unstable, and move around with very small changes of frequency.

Fourth, any reflections from cabinet edge diffraction, hard surfaced walls, stage floor, etc, etc, etc, also cause a pattern of lobes or dead spots all over the room. There are normally so many of these issues in teh venue that the other matters may be pretty minimal as to importance.
Just move your head sound at the next time you are where someone else;s band is playing, and you will hear the shifting high end, EVEN IF you are out of line-of-sight from the amps.

All that stuff gets to the bottom line that if you are concerned about audiophile things, like "stero image", etc, it matters a lot. But then you have control over the room, listener location, etc, etc.

For instrument amp usage, there are normally enough uncontrolled variables that it seems not very useful to single out this one issue....not that sound mightn't be "improved" by each small change........of course.....
 
Ok, if 10" seperation = 565 Hz, then 10 ft of seperation (12X10") would = 565/12 Hz comb filter freq = 47 Hz. So its still in the audio range. What's going on is the 2 drivers are simply reinforcing or cancelling each other out at that freq at certain points in space, and you move from peak to valley as you move through that horizontal space.

So moving from a peak (drivers add) to valley (drivers cancel) would require moving 10" at 565 Hz, easy to do/notice. At 47Hz you'd have to walk 10 ft to notice the same change since the wavelength is much bigger. Unless you're moving fast, the more gradual change wouldn't be as noticeable. Maybe if you're riding a bike across the dance floor, for example.

Am I approaching this right? Does that make sense? I'm making this up as I go along, asking for confirmation, not stating this stuff as fact.

BillFM? Is this correct?

Randy