Wood question

[Phil Mastro]

I'm sure they ship, but they are a major supplier, so they are unlikely to ship anything less than a bundle (4'x4'x12'). They allow locals to pick through the piles and call it "retail" but they aren't a regular retailer per se. Even when I buy one or two boards, I do it via purchase order and pay their invoice cash.

The roasted walnut guy is a smaller local supplier, but again he only sells full boards between 72 and 96". The odd time I see shorts there but they are cutoffs rather than his main product. He's a boat building supplier and I don't think he normally ships stuff, I'm sure 99% of his business is local.

That's too bad, but thanks for the answer. I may be in the island in a few months, so maybe I'll contact you again...

I don't know how available this stuff is anywhere, but Guanacaste / Parota is supposedly very lightweight and has some nice colour and banding. Apparently 27 lbs/ cubic foot, and pictures look good:

 

[dwizum]

I don't know how available this stuff is anywhere, but Guanacaste / Parota is supposedly very lightweight and has some nice colour and banding. Apparently 27 lbs/ cubic foot, and pictures look good:

I've used it in furniture a couple times. It can look much plainer than that photo. I don't think I've ever seen a piece in real life with that much color contrast in the grain, but I'm sure they're out there. One big advantage it has is that the logs are gigantic so it's easy to find in big pieces. When I've bought it, it's been under $20/bf, so it's definitely cheaper than most rosewood but more expensive than the domestics that have been mentioned here (i.e. walnut). I've heard people preaching it as a koa alternative but it's definitely lighter, softer, and not quite the same texture-wise.

That said I think it's got the weight problem in the opposite direction: too soft/light vs rosewood being too hard/heavy. It's practically a softwood by feel and it's easy to dent with your fingernail. It feels and works like a very grainy medium-hardness pine. Like, imagine if ash or oak and pine had a love child. Then add a dash of walnut coloring.

Not sure I'd want a body made from it unless I was ready to accept a lot of handling and play wear. Maybe a good backer for a thin rosewood cap though. It's definitely more of a tan/brown milk chocolate color vs purple/red rosewood so you'd get an obvious contrast even though they're both "brown."

 

[James Collins]

Black locust is another option. I have a guitar with a bridge made out of it. It looks distinct from Indian rosewood for example, but within the same family.

 

[Beej]

Black locust is another option. I have a guitar with a bridge made out of it. It looks distinct from Indian rosewood for example, but within the same family.View attachment 4524068

Are you sure that's not roasted black locust? That's much darker than any other black locust I've had my hands on, but looks like some roasted stuff I've got.

 

[James Collins]

Are you sure that's not roasted black locust? That's much darker than any other black locust I've had my hands on, but looks like some roasted stuff I've got.

It might be treated in some way, but I don't think it was roasted. It might have been some sort of fuming like with ammonia. I know that was done to the back and sides of that particular guitar.

 

[James Collins]

Here's a link to some examples. I'm pretty sure that's what he did.
https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=119408

 

[DastarD]

A small update, I found a guy here in the Netherlands that is going to build them, he suggested Wenge, and showed me a piece of Wenge he is going to use, but I am doubting, which is not a very nice thing to do because this guy is putting a lot of effort into this.
He can however build it from Rosewood and make it either a thin body or hollow out some parts.
The neck will be the same material as the body so either Wenge or Rosewood.
But I am still struggling with the Wenge, he also showed me some roasted Ash which could look the same after some staining or oiling.
It is really difficult to get exactly what I want :-(

This is the piece of Wenge

And exactly this look is what we are hoping to achieve

 

[dwizum]

Wenge has a very distinct look, and I don't really think it looks at all like the body you're trying to match. If you're not in love with the plan you should definitely explain that to the builder. It's always best to get everything out in the open before any wood gets cut.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Are you trying to match the color of the body from the second picture or that type of grain? I also doubt that wenge in the picture is going to come out like either color or grain. Rosewood varies a lot but, in my mind at least, it could look closer to the second picture then wenge.

 

[DastarD]

Are you trying to match the color of the body from the second picture or that type of grain? I also doubt that wenge in the picture is going to come out like either color or grain. Rosewood varies a lot but, in my mind at least, it could look closer to the second picture then wenge.

Color and hopefully grain!

 

[James Collins]

I wouldn't go for wenge if that's what you want. Dye is better for color match than stain btw.

 

[RichterScale]

Are you making a whole bass, or just a fingerboard?

 

[Beej]

Color and hopefully grain!

It really sounds to me like you need some rosewood then. The body can be chambered out for weight reduction. Even if you can't find a solid piece of rosewood, perhaps then a layered body either with accent veneers like the example you posted above, or just glued together. Rosewood is beautiful enough that imperfectly matched grain on the glue lines in the body will still look attractive. If your builder is still having difficulty sourcing some, then perhaps do their homework for them and see if you can find some rosewood blanks, top/back sets or even just project boards. There has to be someone in Amsterdam that carries them or can source them for you. Worst case scenario try to order some online from a supplier. Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[James Collins]

That is what a wenge top looks like. Even walnut with some sort of reddish dye would seem to be a better match but would require some experimentation.

 

[RichterScale]

walnut with some sort of reddish dye would seem to be a better match but would require some experimentation.

This is exactly what I was about to say.
I think it would actually be easier to find a piece of black walnut that looks just like the pic, than rosewood.
I'm not an expert, but I can't tell if the pic is rosewood or stained walnut.
Koa also tends to have a similar grain pattern that walnut could be mistaken for.
I would shop for a piece of walnut that has the grain you like and get enough that you can play with different dyes, stains and finishes to end up with that reddish hue you like.

 

[DastarD]

Are you making a whole bass, or just a fingerboard?

The whole bass

 

[James Collins]

This is exactly what I was about to say.
I think it would actually be easier to find a piece of black walnut that looks just like the pic, than rosewood.
I'm not an expert, but I can't tell if the pic is rosewood or stained walnut.
Koa also tends to have a similar grain pattern that walnut could be mistaken for.
I would shop for a piece of walnut that has the grain you like and get enough that you can play with different dyes, stains and finishes to end up with that reddish hue you like.

Yeah. This for example looks more like his guitar picture than I think rosewood would. So much rosewood either has straight grains like you find in most Indian rosewood or a lot of sap wood like you guys see in cocobolo or other rosewoods. Plus you could travel across borders with walnut without fear of CITES confiscation.

 

[DastarD]

I still find it difficult, the Wenge is off, so now we either are looking for Rosewood, which is very hard to come by, and to get the right color is also difficult. We also found some Spanish Walnut which is very expensive, but I am not convinced that the grain is the same. So the search continues. I did found a guy on Reddit, who dyed his mahony bass body with 7 coats of danish oil to get a walnut/rosewood look.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

The Watco Danish Oil "Dark Walnut" over mahogany will indeed produce a decent rosewood facsimile. Adding a little red-brown Transtint will get it closer. Mess around on some scrap, you can get pretty close.

 

[Durham52]

I'll second what RichterScale said, Walnut, Blackwood (Australian), or Koa, (Blackwood and Koa are very close relatives and look very similar, depending on the particular board/tree) would get you closer. A bit of stain matching should take it darker if needed. Any of those woods would be lighter in weight than Rosewood, but are still a little heavier and crisper in tone than say mahogany. I've built a number of guitars and basses using Blackwood and companies such as Maton, Noyce and Cole Clark in Australia use it regularly. Taylor, use it for backs and sides in some of their acoustics as well.

In the end, finding a suitable replacement wood for hard to get rosewood, might come down to matching what rosewood coloring and grain pattern you have in your head. Uniform, very dark browns, as in a top quality Rosewood fretboard, or something with more color variation?

Perhaps looking for Rosewood in matched backs for acoustic guitars, or as drop tops for semi hollow and solid bodies might get you your true Rosewood look?

Top pickture, Rosewood, next Walnut, next Australian Blackwood. Of course the color range can vary a lot across most wood species and grain patterns can depend on how wood is sawn. (a lot of Rosewood is quarter sawn)
I've had American Walnut and Tasmanian Blackwood in very dark browns, while other trees will cut with much lighter colored wood.

If book matched tops will work for you, then you could have the core of the body in something like mahogany and stain it to match the top and back. (?)