Working person's fretless

[Pyrat]

I have played fretless in a non-committal way for years and really want to put in the time to be proficient. I have a Squier VM fretless and it's...okay. The Fender Player Series looks pretty nice and also the Ibanez Portamento. Bottom line...am I getting that much more with either one? I will of course make an attempt at finding each to try, but I know the TB world has lots of extra hands on time and appreciate the feedback~

 

[Orpheus55]

I play an older MIM fretless; have had several of them in fact. They're very god and easily had for around $400. In my experience, the "lines" have always been perfectly flush with the neck. I use Fender 9050L flats.

 

[Gorn]

Nothing's wrong with that Squier fretless. If you have the money to spend, an MIJ fretless Fender would be my choice.

 

[WillyW]

I’m on my third Warmoth fretless neck order, the roasted maple one I have on hand is quite nice.

If you already have a body you like, a new neck could be the ticket.

 

[Bass V]

Dean makes / made a great budget fretless, active, so the down is the typical battery issue

 

[Pyrat]

So...the good: had a genius local music-store owner fix the neck on the Squier to a play-able condition and have been playing more than ever. The bad: the neck on the Squier is still in pretty rotten shape and I'm still on the hunt for something to facilitate ease of play. SO...it's either new neck and guts for the Squier (the most affordable option) or a new (or used) Player Series Fender. STILL! Fretless has turned a rather drab and dull practice routine into an exploration of my abilities and bad habits and made me feel like a PLAYER again! Thanks for the acknowledgement and encouragement~

 

[80jazz]

Ironic this topic came up since I have a bit of the same thing going on.

Does anyone have a fretless LB-100? I wonder if it would make a good all around fretless with the pickup being overwound and closer to the bridge.

 

[Sid the Kid]

So...the good: had a genius local music-store owner fix the neck on the Squier to a play-able condition and have been playing more than ever. The bad: the neck on the Squier is still in pretty rotten shape and I'm still on the hunt for something to facilitate ease of play. SO...it's either new neck and guts for the Squier (the most affordable option) or a new (or used) Player Series Fender. STILL! Fretless has turned a rather drab and dull practice routine into an exploration of my abilities and bad habits and made me feel like a PLAYER again! Thanks for the acknowledgement and encouragement~

Anything that makes practice fun is a big win! Warmoth makes nice replacement necks, but to keep it cheap you should check out Mighty Mite replacement necks. I have had 2 so far and they were both great!

 

[mikeswals]

Look for a used Carvin, it will be a hell of a fretless bass for the money. Ebony boards really make a world of difference.

 

[MonetBass]

What is it about the Squier that you don't like? The neck, the electronics? As others have said, replacing those may be a easier and more affordable option. I had a Squier VM fretless Jazz and changed out the pickups and pots with those from a MIM FSR Jazz, and it really woke the bass up. I wound up selling it after I got a Cort Artisan B4FL, which is a fantastic instrument for the price.

 

[JRA]

I know the TB world has lots of extra hands on time and appreciate the feedback

I'm still on the hunt for something to facilitate ease of play

new neck and guts for the Squier (the most affordable option)

Fretless has turned a rather drab and dull practice routine into an exploration of my abilities and bad habits and made me feel like a PLAYER again!

get a new neck and whatever else you think your ax needs. it's all about the neck/setup. the electronics are fun, but froo-froo. the neck and setup are serious business. it's great that you're enjoying playing --- good luck with your fretless ax!

 

[bholder]

A used Sire fretless would fit the bill too. Used prices on the gen 1 versions are cheaper since gen 2 came out...

 

[luciens]

You'd probably have to spend a fair bit of money to get something substantially better than the Squier VM you've already got; it's a really good bass that sounds great for what you paid for it. The player will be better, but not another $700 better, IMO.

I also strongly recommend against upgrading or modding any bass, including yours. I won't go into all the details of why, I'll just say that at the end of the day, the bang/buck ratio of an upgrade is nearly always significantly lower than simply selling and getting another bass that's more along the lines of what you want.

So my personal recommendation is to only spend money for a really substantial upgrade. That's just been my experience over the years trying the "incremental" least-expensive route into a better instrument. That's always, and I mean always, more expensive than just jumping to the more suitable/desirable bass from the get-go.

If so, my recommendations for a largest possible jump in quality for more or less the least amount of money for an FL are (in order of recommendation):
- Carvin/Kiesel Brian Bromberg sig. If I were gigging and I mean just wearing it out both on the strap or seated, all night every night, the Kiesel B24 FL would be my first choice. Options would be radiused humbucker pickups and unlined FL neck. This is the most ergonomic bass ever designed and your arms and hands would thank you for going this route. Drawbacks are expensive, hard to find used (because it's kind of a poor seller), and takes forever to get one.
- G&L L2000 with unlined jazz dimensioned neck. This is the G&L L2000 experience, the only drawback being takes forever to either find or order an unlined FL version.
- Fender Tony Franklin. This is basically a 70's Fender P/J with an unlined ebony board and a PU switch. This one is basically the Fender Precision experience, with all those pros and cons.
- Fender American Professional FL. This is the Fender JB FL experience, which you're already familiar with more or less.

And maybe a few others, but this is the least amount of quality I'd actually spend money to replace your present bass. If not, I'd just keep on with your VM for now.

And of course, far better if you can find any of these used, of course.

L

 

[Old Fart]

I have a couple of suggestions/observations:

Learning on a poor quality instrument can be frustrating. A killer of motivation. We musicians are 'organic' people who became proficient by spending many hours practicing because it was FUN. We are addicted to this. We are creative. Frustration can dry up the creative juices. Best to learn on the best fretless you can afford. There ain't nuthin' wrong with Squier basses. They are not the highest quality available, but they are a great value, certainly.

I am currently learning fretless. Again. This time, the juices have been flowing for several weeks with no end in sight. This is fun. The bass I am using is a pleasure to behold and to play. It also is my only unlined fretless. I wanted to avoid having lines, which are a visual distraction. The lack of lines helps to prevent me from looking at my fingers. This tactic is working, for me. YMMV.

To explain further: I am finding that when I use my eyes, at all, my hearing suffers. When I find myself looking at my fingers, oftentimes I deliberately look away. When this happens, I immediately notice I am suddenly HEARING the note much more effectively than I was a moment ago, when I was using my eyes. Closing my eyes improves my hearing even more.

I recommend an unlined fingerboard AND a blindfold.

 

[luciens]

Just a quick note on the unlined and blindfold/don't look at the fingerboard thing: while these are good exercises to do from time to time, don't try to overdo them. Especially when starting out or not having a lot of playing time on an FL, etc., trying to tax yourself with this too much can make practicing a chore and take a lot of the fun out of it.

Remember Leo Fender originally designed the Fender bass as a fretted instrument. The FL version is only an innovation on a bass that wasn't intended to be played that way. So, unlike the UB, it doesn't have the other tactile cues that help with intonation, or the techniques like the various schools the UB has, etc. Jaco Pastorius, who as we know was the guy who popularized the FL, famously talked about the desirability of lines because of that.

In other words, it's not a crutch to rely on visual cues on the FL. It's ok to look at side dots and use lines for this purpose. No, that doesn't mean don't exclude practice without looking, only that just don't go overboard with it and abuse it until playing becomes a drag.

Even after many years of playing FL myself, it's still very difficult to intonate well without looking at all, and jumps are still pretty challenging. I accept that as just inherent in the instrument itself, so I don't kick myself when I give up and resume looking at the lines or side dots....

L

 

[Pyrat]

This is my favorite part about the fretless community...positive and useful information! I am keeping the Squier...and as I stated...the neck and guts are pretty shot. I will keep playing a BUNCH!!! and shop for good parts to replace what's toast...thanks to ALL who replied~

 

[Old Fart]

. Even after many years of playing FL myself, it's still very difficult to intonate well without looking at all, and jumps are still pretty challenging.

L

Certainly, jumps would be challenging. It makes total sense to glance at the 'board to ensure you are in approximately the correct location. Also, your point is well taken in terms of avoiding too much frustration. This was my point as well.

That said, I do in fact intend to turn intonation almost exclusively over to my years. And, again, I seem to hear better when there is no visual input for my brain to consider.

 

[Killing Floor]

The challenge is that above entry level price point the difference is details and preference.
Based on your avatar you clearly appreciate the details. So my really dumb opinion is that if you want to play fretless more seriously, or simply play it more and enjoy it more, my first step would be finding a fretless that is similar feel to my fretted. I don't mean same brand specifically, but similar neck shape, etc. Once you have that in your head it's easier to focus on the smaller details.

 

[Pilgrim]

I have played fretless in a non-committal way for years and really want to put in the time to be proficient. I have a Squier VM fretless and it's...okay. The Fender Player Series looks pretty nice and also the Ibanez Portamento. Bottom line...am I getting that much more with either one? I will of course make an attempt at finding each to try, but I know the TB world has lots of extra hands on time and appreciate the feedback~

The Squier VM series are very solid instruments. Chances are that if you have the action set properly, what you have will play just fine for you.

Of course, I hate to discourage anyone from spending money on additional basses. That's one of the excesses we all encourage here on TB....