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Worth it to upgrade to a full stack?

M

mandobear

Dec 16, 2008
25
0
#1
I'm currently in a metal band with two guitarists who love to crank their marshalls and it is making it really difficult for me to be heard in small to medium sized venues with no pa support. My current setup is a LM II and a 4ohm Avatar b212. I have to practically turn my master volume knob all the way up just to be heard.

So basically I'm thinking of getting two 8 ohm avatar cabs, b212 and b410. Will I get a dramatic difference in volume? Should I just consider in getting a different kind of rig considering my needs?
I feel ignorant for these questions but I do need some guidance :)
 
#4
I too play in a band with a loud guitarist that plays through a Marshall 4x10.

I play through a 4x10 and 1x15 with a GK head. It is working okay for me. I use the 4x10 on stage at bar gigs when we have PA support. Haven't played a show yet where there is no PA, so I can offer no advice there.
 
#5
sevenyearsdown said:
Two 8ohm cabs hooked up in parallel would give a 4 ohm load which would allow you to use the full output of the head....so you should see a big improvement with a 212 + 410 + extra wattage.
Click to expand...

With the half stack rig I have now my cab is 4ohm also. So I would be getting the same wattage I have now but it will still be louder right? More speakers more volume?
 
#9
UncleBalsamic said:
Get another avatar 212. It'll be better and louder.
Click to expand...

the one he already has is 4ohm. thats the minimum on markbass amps.

IMO a 2x12" is really all youll never "need." but i suppose the guitarists turning down is not an option in a metal band.

sometimes if headroom is key, a 4x10" is the way to go. 12" speakers sound a lot better, but what good is it if it cant be heard. maybe a cheap 4x10 that you wont be afraid to crank, like a hartke or something?
 
#10
Ok great I'm feeling more confident about throwing down my hard earned cash on a full stack. I think I will save up to take the plunge for 8ohm 212 and 410 cabs and stick with my LM II. I wasn't sure if I needed an amp with more wattage.
And yes unfortunately my two guitarists never listen to the rest of us about the volume. I love em but they are guitards.
 
#12
You also may want to consider getting two of the 4x10 8 ohm Avatars and putting one on each side of the drummer. That will give you a totally even sound on the stage and give you 8 speakers to deal with those darned Marshalls. That will be your 'loud' set up and you can have the 2x12 for lower volume stuff (and with your LMII & 2x12~ right now you have a killer portable light rig).
 
#13
bassist4dalord said:
Turn down! Another thread was recently started regarding a dude who can't hear himself with an Ampeg SVT-CL/810. Grab an Avatar 410, turn the guitarists down, and rock on.
Click to expand...

+1.

One of two things can happen -

1.) Your bandmates learn how to be heavy and crushing without being eardrum-shattering, thus making life easier for everyone in the band.

or, the typical answer in the metal community...

2.) Everyone in the band tries to be louder than each other and it sounds like absolute crap to everyone else in the venue because being taking up too much sonic space just makes this inarticulatle, low-pitched droning noise that covers up everything you guys are trying to do musically. I saw an amateur metal band play a couple weeks ago and their dedication to playing with their amps practically smoking made them sound horrible in the venue.

Metal is one of my favorite genres to listen to, but I don't like playing it live for this (and other) reasons...
 
#14
Goatman said:
+1.

2.) Everyone in the band tries to be louder than each other and it sounds like absolute crap to everyone else in the venue because being taking up too much sonic space just makes this inarticulatle, low-pitched droning noise that covers up everything you guys are trying to do musically. I saw an amateur metal band play a couple weeks ago and their dedication to playing with their amps practically smoking made them sound horrible in the venue.
Click to expand...

that pretty much sounds like my band. I think we may be the only metal band in my town to play in standard tuning. Our style is very NWOBHM. So I think by keeping it standard my guitarists feel like they have to make up for it by being louder.
 
#16
Mike Shevlin said:
You also may want to consider getting two of the 4x10 8 ohm Avatars and putting one on each side of the drummer. That will give you a totally even sound on the stage and give you 8 speakers to deal with those darned Marshalls. That will be your 'loud' set up and you can have the 2x12 for lower volume stuff (and with your LMII & 2x12~ right now you have a killer portable light rig).
Click to expand...
This can be a real double edged sword if you put your directly on either side of the drummer. If they're that close, it can result in major phasing and comb filtering issues because you should have bass cabs no closer together than their lowest wavelength. I've seen some people do it, but causing more comb filtering is not something I would do if I were looking to be louder.

Also, if you REALLY want to be louder, match your cabs. Get two 410's or two 212's, not one of each.
 
#18
mandobear said:
With the half stack rig I have now my cab is 4ohm also. So I would be getting the same wattage I have now but it will still be louder right? More speakers more volume?
Click to expand...


Yes, but you also may be maxing out your current cab beyond its' optimal performance; more cone area will dissipate the same power more easily (without hitting a sonic wall due to factors like cone excursion limits, etc). It'll be far louder. It'd be even better if the 2 cabs were the same, since 1/2 the power will go through each. Less bass and more mids helps as well.
 
#19
Ok, dude, i have fallen in love with this cab. Bergantino best cabs for metal ever. i play technical death/black metal jazz metal and classic metal. it is perfect. it cuts the way i want and has awesome range full 180 degrees (most only get close to 98). so if you want to have volume to spare get a cab by bergantino i swear itll be the best choice you make for your rig.
 
#20
lomo said:
Yes, but you also may be maxing out your current cab beyond its' optimal performance; more cone area will dissipate the same power more easily (without hitting a sonic wall due to factors like cone excursion limits, etc). It'll be far louder. It'd be even better if the 2 cabs were the same, since 1/2 the power will go through each. Less bass and more mids helps as well.
Click to expand...

Awesome answer. Thank you Iomo.
 

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