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Would this be worth it??

M

MTXMUGEN

Nov 28, 2010
11
0
Akron, Ohio
#1
This has been an idea floating around in my head for quite some time but until recently, I havent had the resources to actually pull it off. Now the only thing holding me back is the practicality of it all, which is something I'm hoping you all can help me with.

I have blocks of very fine grain synthetic graphite laying around, left overs from a job I had in the past. I also have a set up Mk1 pick-ups and preamp.. I have some very high grade epoxy resins on hand aswell as raw carbon fiber cloth..brass that I can cast and machine into a bridge.. tuners... ect


What I was thinking was to find a neck somewhere, weather cannibalized from another bass or just a cheap on-line bolt on special.. then make a graphite body around that..then cover the whole mess in some sleek looking carbon fiber.. drop in the electronics and hardware... Maybe do a little bit of paint work and have myself a new toy.

Iv'e never made a musical instrument before, But I am a machinist/engineer by trade and am no stranger to working with wood and graphite. I'm confidant that I could pull this off,but it would be a first for me. I have resins that would work between wood and graphite, sealers, paint and really any piece of equipment that one would ever want for something like this. HVLP spray guns, air compressor, belt and orbital sanders, router, carbide and diamond bits, drill press, and even a vertical mill..

Any thoughts on this idea? suggestions? Ive heard that graphite and carbon fiber have been used in basses in the past but I haven't heard whether or not those basses actually had a decent sound, let alone had a benefit from being made from such exotic materials.

Thanks
-Eric
 
#3
MTXMUGEN said:
...Any thoughts on this idea? suggestions? Ive heard that graphite and carbon fiber have been used in basses in the past but I haven't heard whether or not those basses actually had a decent sound, let alone had a benefit from being made from such exotic materials.

Thanks
-Eric
Click to expand...

Some people like the sound and benfits of carbon fiber necks very much! Check out this thread:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f57/how-i-make-cf-neck-760091/
 
#5
elgecko said:
Some people like the sound and benfits of carbon fiber necks very much! Check out this thread:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f57/how-i-make-cf-neck-760091/
Click to expand...

That is one absolutely wicked neck!

I was trying to avoid making the neck itself but it looks like that might be an option worth exploring.

The question I still have is would the graphite/CF body bring anything to the sonic/audio table? Or am I just better off covering a piece of wood in CF?
 
#6
To the best of my knowledge, graphite doesn't get used in basses, except as a resin filler in the epoxy in (IIRC) Modulus or Moses necks, which are mostly CF. In any case, I've never heard of anyone using graphite block for anything. Too fragile, brittle.

Even "graphite" nuts are not graphite, they are graphite-filled acetyl or polyamide.

The other common usage of "graphite" with respect to guitars is the mistaken use while actually meaning CF-based composites.




You say you do graphite machining - are you making electrodes for sinker EDM?
 
#10
No, bit that's exactly my point: no one uses graphite rods for reinforcement. They are carbon fiber composite rods. Calling CF "graphite" is a complete mistake which started a ways back and has unfortunately continued to the present.

If you had a 1/4 x 1/4 x 24" actual graphite rod and simply put it down on a table too abruptly, you'd shatter it to pieces.
 
#12
pilotjones said:
...
You say you do graphite machining - are you making electrodes for sinker EDM?
Click to expand...

Nope, far from it. Though I'm sure I could make EDM electrodes pretty easily. I helped research and develop a new graphite material technology for my first engineering co-op.. But I'm sure you know all abut co-ops. We got all the messy jobs that the full time employees didn't want to do:rolleyes: It was part of my job to procure the 25mm diameter by 9mm sample cores for thermal diffusivity/conductivity testing.. It involved a very worn out and very abused larger Bridgeport mill, a very crappy diamond grit coring "bit", and about 3 disposable full body lab suits.. but enough about that


I revisited the links that I found way back that suggested graphite being a viable material but just as you guys were talking about, the "graphite" material they wrote of was really a carbon fiber (1 dimensional graphine technically) composite. However I did find an implication that Steinberger uses graphite AND CF in their L-series basses (Steinberger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)..

With this I decided to do a bit of research starting with the velocity of sound through various woods and graphite. hardwood in general has a propagation velocity of ~16000 f/s, ash in particular has a propagation velocity of ~18300, and the graphite I have has a propagation velocity of about 19200 f/s..So this graphite isn't too different from wood... here is a silver bullet to the idea though, anisotropy.. Wood and CF transmit sound much better along the travel of its fibers opposed between the fibers. Graphite also exhibits this except its graphine layers insted of fibers. Here is another kicker, synthetic graphite is basically made up of graphite "grains", and their alignments are random.. So synthetic graphite is isotropic in respect to its acoustics . as such the velocities listed above are for all intents and purposes worthless as the measurements were taken along the fibers and layers (natural "layered" graphite was tested).. That and I have no idea how the anisotropy or isotropy would effect the instrument.. outside of maybe acting as sort of an acoustic filter for wooden basses. if that is a case then the question becomes what is the net effect? filtering out wanted vibrations or filtering out unwatned vibrations??
 
#13
kris pung said:
Sounds fun and I'd strongly recommend reading these 2 books first.

Building Electric Guitars: How to Make Solid-Body, Hollow-Body and Semi-Acoustic Electric Guitars and Bass Guitars
by Martin Koch

Make Your Own Electric Guitar
by Melvyn Hiscock
Click to expand...

I will also recommend Hiscock's indispensable tome. (I haven't read any other books on the subject, and hadn't read anything when I built my first one, just figured it out, and I still play that bass), keep researching, bass building is fun. the first one may not turn out perfectly like your vision, but you'll want to try again.
 
#14
MTXMUGEN said:
With this I decided to do a bit of research starting with the velocity of sound through various woods and graphite. hardwood in general has a propagation velocity of ~16000 f/s, ash in particular has a propagation velocity of ~18300, and the graphite I have has a propagation velocity of about 19200 f/s..So this graphite isn't too different from wood... here is a silver bullet to the idea though, anisotropy.. Wood and CF transmit sound much better along the travel of its fibers opposed between the fibers. Graphite also exhibits this except its graphine layers insted of fibers. Here is another kicker, synthetic graphite is basically made up of graphite "grains", and their alignments are random.. So synthetic graphite is isotropic in respect to its acoustics . as such the velocities listed above are for all intents and purposes worthless as the measurements were taken along the fibers and layers (natural "layered" graphite was tested).. That and I have no idea how the anisotropy or isotropy would effect the instrument.. outside of maybe acting as sort of an acoustic filter for wooden basses. if that is a case then the question becomes what is the net effect? filtering out wanted vibrations or filtering out unwatned vibrations??
Click to expand...

Holy cow... It's been over 10 years since I have read anything regarding material sciences, and I STILL understood exactoly what you said here.
 
#15
bassman314 said:
Holy cow... It's been over 10 years since I have read anything regarding material sciences, and I STILL understood exactoly what you said here.
Click to expand...

Glad at least someone understood it lol. I'm not known for my ability to articulate such things.. :rolleyes:


I'm starting to think the high density and high VOS will make the instrument almost too bright,and possibly prone to ringing out on some higher orders of harmonics.

I think im going to give it a go anyway. I have one more final exam then I'm free to enslave myself in projects :) sadly I have 2 machines to design and build and one to finish before i can do anything:crying:
 

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